11/05/24
March 03, 2008
Randy Moss Re-Signs with the Patriots: Moss and the Patriots agree to a three year, $27 million deal. Meanwhile the Falcons release Warrick Dunn one day after signing Michael Turner to a six year deal. However, the week's biggest winner is Ben Roethlisberger who agreed to a $102 million deal with the Steelers.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia to football at 08:07 PM - 51 comments
Oops. It would be greatly appreciated if someone could fix that.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:51 PM on March 03, 2008
Oops. I'd be greatly opposed to lbb getting both Brady and Moss again in Fantasy Football.
posted by trox at 08:56 PM on March 03, 2008
I think that Big Ben's deal could be the biggest in Steelers history. (haven't read all the stories yet) Quite frankly, I am suprised they would spend that much, that isn't the Rooney family's style. I just hope he gives good results, a 6th Super Bowl would be nice. :)
posted by steelergirl at 11:29 PM on March 03, 2008
Randy Moss has been a jackass his entire career. The way he pouted and sulked and whined in Oakland until they had to give him away to New England was pathetic. Now he has one relatively trouble-free year, puts up gaudy numbers, and gets rewarded handsomely. I sincerely hope that the real Randy Moss resurfaces and NE gets burned.
posted by whitedog65 at 11:39 PM on March 03, 2008
I sincerely hope that the real Randy Moss resurfaces and NE gets burned. I sincerely doubt that happens. And as an Eagle fan who remembers how "one relatively trouble-free year" of Terrell Owens elevated our offense to unreal heights, I'm sure Patriots' fans are happy that the Pats are giving it another go with Moss (and their even-more-unreal offense) in the roost.
posted by DudeDykstra at 12:31 AM on March 04, 2008
Quite frankly, I am suprised they would spend that much Remember this is the NFL we're talking about, all that matters is the guaranteed money, and $58 million (61 - 3 they had to pay anyway) over eight years for a young QB who already has a Super Bowl ring doesn't seem outrageous.
posted by yerfatma at 06:53 AM on March 04, 2008
I sincerely hope that the real Randy Moss resurfaces and NE gets burned. Memo to whitedog: when the fridge starts to stink, it's time to clean out the sour grapes.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:45 AM on March 04, 2008
I sincerely hope that the real Randy Moss resurfaces and NE gets burned. The real Randy Moss? I think that's the player who has not once, but twice, taken less money than was offered but other teams to play for the Patriots. I think the real Randy Moss is interested in playing with the best QB in the league and for the team that is the out and out favorites to win next year. I must be drinking the kool-aid again
posted by YukonGold at 07:45 AM on March 04, 2008
Who cares if they are out and out favorites? How many points were they favored by the oddsmakers to win the Super Bowl? Yeah, that's what I thought. Sour grapes? As I said, Moss has one trouble-free year and you are ready to declare him a changed man? Very realistic.
posted by whitedog65 at 07:58 AM on March 04, 2008
I recall Moss having a couple trouble-free years in Minnesota on the Culpepper Express.
posted by jmd82 at 08:31 AM on March 04, 2008
I tell you what, whitedog -- you come back next fall, or next winter, or whenever (if you're still around) and check if I'm gnashing my teeth about Randy Moss. My guess based on short acquaintance is that I'll be perfectly happy with whatever he's doing, while you'll still be amping up your blood pressure about him.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:40 AM on March 04, 2008
Memo to whitedog: when the fridge starts to stink, it's time to clean out the sour grapes. Sour grapes for what? I thought i remembered them losing the championship. You know, it may be a shock to some people in NE, but there are people who can flat-out dislike the team. They have an ass of a coach, an arrogant QB, mouthy LB's, and dirty players. There are a lot of reasons for the non-fan to wish them to get their comeuppance without it being "sour grapes". The fact they're WINNING with all of the above, simply makes it worse, but doesn't make it the only reason.
posted by bdaddy at 08:44 AM on March 04, 2008
I'm sure this thread will end well. steelergirl, my thoughts exactly. That hardly seems like the Rooney Business School way of doing things. Nice family, but not necessarily known for throwing around the big numbers. Of course, the chance to lock down a franchise QB of Roethlisberger's size, ability, and acumen for the game is a big deal in the NFL these days. Hope he rewards their faith in him (although preferably not at the expense of the Dolphins).
posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:10 AM on March 04, 2008
Sour grapes for what? Let's read and see: Now he has one relatively trouble-free year, puts up gaudy numbers, and gets rewarded handsomely. I sincerely hope that the real Randy Moss resurfaces and NE gets burned. Now. bdaddy: how are sour grapes defined in your universe? And however you're defining them, does it bear any resemblance to the old Aesop's fable? They have an ass of a coach, an arrogant QB, mouthy LB's, and dirty players. There are a lot of reasons for the non-fan to wish them to get their comeuppance without it being "sour grapes". I see, so it's birds of a feather: the two of you both felt the need to come into a thread about a player being re-signed and stink it up with a haterfest. Why didn't you just stay out of the thread?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:20 AM on March 04, 2008
bdaddy: how are sour grapes defined in your universe? As "Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired"...or in laymen terms "pretending to despise something because they know they can’t have it" I don't see how his comment automatically is tied to that (or mine for that matter). Like I said, there are plenty of reasons to dislike the Pats or Moss that have nothing to do with "sour grapes". There are also plenty of people who wouldn't want Moss on their team despite his ability, so there is no "pretending to dislike" for those people. the two of you both felt the need to come into a thread about a player being re-signed Actually, despite the title, the thread included several topics including Warrick Dunn and Ben Roethlisburger. Why didn't you just stay out of the thread? Why don't you let me decide which threads I post to
posted by bdaddy at 11:07 AM on March 04, 2008
That's quite a contract for Big Ben. He's come a long way. Honestly, I felt he was finished after he wrecked his bike. Just curious, have the Steelers introduced any "off limit" activity for him? Namely motorcycles? Or did he lose the desire to ride after the accident?
posted by BoKnows at 11:23 AM on March 04, 2008
there are plenty of reasons to dislike the Pats or Moss that have nothing to do with "sour grapes" But would anyone care if they weren't winning? The "Sour Grapes" argument isn't that the Pats have negative qualities its that people are looking for things to complain about. If the media and fans spent as much time on the Cardinals or the 49ers or the Bengals, I'm sure they'd dig up some dirt there too. You're putting the cart before the dead horse they beat like a rented mule. Sorry, I just wanted to get some more clichés in.
posted by yerfatma at 11:51 AM on March 04, 2008
Remember this is the NFL we're talking about, all that matters is the guaranteed money, and $58 million (61 - 3 they had to pay anyway) over eight years for a young QB who already has a Super Bowl ring doesn't seem outrageous. That is true, but the Steelers are notorious for letting players go rather than pay them the big bucks. Bettis took a million dollar cut to stay in Pittsburgh, albiet it was before Super Bowl XL. And Ben got 20 mil. just for signing. Not begrudging him the big bucks but whoa!! As far as Randy Moss goes, I have always thought he was a good. And I think his behavior, as well as his performance this year with the Pats was exceptional. Whether he got counciling, took some classes on how to deport one's self, or just decided he had acted like a butthead on occasion, he was a team player. It was in the Pats interest to resign him.
posted by steelergirl at 12:23 PM on March 04, 2008
My grapes were turned to sweet wine when the Giants beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but it's typical of some personality types to completely erase that little episode and continue to tout NE as the second coming. That's okay, stay in your fantasy world.
posted by whitedog65 at 12:41 PM on March 04, 2008
But would anyone care if they weren't winning? Some would. For instance I despise the Ravens for a lot of the same reasons I despise the Pats (mouthy LB's, dirty players, ass of a coach), and they weren't exactly a threat to anyone last year. But my only point was LBB implying that the only reason the other poster (and me as well) were saying those things was because of "sour grapes"...That's an arrogant stance in that "if you have an issue it must be because your jealous". I find that stance similar to the girls on the Southwestern flight who complained that they were treated badly because they were beautiful. In actuality, they may have been treated badly because they were horse's asses. That's all I was arguing (that there are PLENTY of reasons people may not like Moss/Pats that aren't necessarily because they secretly wish they had the same on their team)
posted by bdaddy at 12:43 PM on March 04, 2008
it's typical of some personality types to completely erase that little episode and continue to tout NE as the second coming. That's okay, stay in your fantasy world. You're inventing things out of whole cloth and Patriots fans are the ones in the fantasy world? I don't see anything on this thread even remotely resembling the hubris you describe. Any NE fan will tell you that for the team to contend again this year they have to do some serious work through free agency/drafts/trades to address the gaping holes in the secondary. I'm pretty sure the "second coming" wouldn't enter anywhere into it. Whatever it is that has inspired such unbecoming hate, you really need to get over it, especially since cosmic justice and the Giants D-line already humbled the Patriots and their fans for all time. Your trash talking is pointless. Look at the comments from our esteemed contributor Steelergirl. I ask you, when a STEELERS FAN has charitable things to say about the Patriots, where do you get off being such a dick?
posted by Venicemenace at 12:49 PM on March 04, 2008
Venicemenace, bend over and try to kiss your own ass. Read (and try to understand) the comments from myself and bdaddy. Ass of a coach, arrogant players, dirty players - can you honestly watch game after game where Rodney Harrison comes in 2 seconds after a player is on the ground and throws and elbow and not think he is dirty? Jealous of the Patriots? Far from it. Sorry, but I don't believe in the "win at any cost" attitude. If you don't agree with that, fine, but if winning is the only thing, why even have rules? Why not just throw the teams out there with "anything goes"? I like to compete, but if I needed an unfair advantage to try and win every game, what's the point? If I don't win there is a reason - the opponent played better, I had an off day, I got the worse end of a lucky break, etc. Anyone that calls the Patriots classy (with a straight face!) may not understand the concept of fair play and sportsmanship.
posted by whitedog65 at 01:20 PM on March 04, 2008
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never called the Patriots classy, praised them as great sportsmen, advocated "win at all costs" or accused you of jealousy. I'm just pointing out that you are coming into this thread spewing bile apropos of nothing, and making straw-man arguments. I fully support your right to dislike the Patriots for all the reasons you noted, Lord knows there are some teams and players I loathe. But I assure you when the Yankees re-signed A-Rod I didn't go into that thread saying "I hate the Yankees, I hope A-Rod blows out his hammy and they lose for all time!!!" Why? Because that kind of boorish, asinine commentary would only make me look like a douche.
posted by Venicemenace at 01:26 PM on March 04, 2008
Venicemenace, bend over and try to kiss your own ass. Read (and try to understand) the comments from myself and bdaddy. woah...don't lump me into a discussion started with that sentence :-)
posted by bdaddy at 01:29 PM on March 04, 2008
Yeah, and calling me a dick says what about you?
posted by whitedog65 at 01:39 PM on March 04, 2008
No offense, bdaddy, but as I was referencing your valid points I felt obliged to denote where they came from. Venicemenace brought vulgarities into the conversation, so I didn't take the high road and turn the other cheek. To all of you - read my very first post on this thread. I was clearly talking about Randy Moss and his history of bad behavior. Hoping NE gets burned was for rewarding the buffoon. All of you classy, rational posters who posted the thoughtful, unbiased remarks should be proud of yourselves.
posted by whitedog65 at 01:50 PM on March 04, 2008
Yeah, and calling me a dick says what about you? That I'm kind of a douche. Back on topic, the Pats desperately needed to make this signing. But it's just the beginning of rebuilding the team for next season. Hopefully a stud defensive players like Gholston falls to them in the draft, and they make some wise free agent pickups in the defensive backfield. However, with Josh McDaniels running the offensive show I shall remain skeptical. What an odious performance in the Super Bowl from the boy coordinator!
posted by Venicemenace at 01:51 PM on March 04, 2008
Dick? Douche? Aren't all of us (me included) at one time or another? You remain loyal to your Pats, I'll root against them, and the world will go on.
posted by whitedog65 at 02:13 PM on March 04, 2008
I was clearly talking about Randy Moss and his history of bad behavior. Hoping NE gets burned was for rewarding the buffoon. Or perhaps they'll reap the rewards of re-signing a player who had 98 receptions for 1493 yards last year while setting a league record with 23 touchdowns. There is a huge difference between playing for the Raiders and the Patriots, something that must be taken into account when discussing Moss's behavior.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:16 PM on March 04, 2008
Certainly. My point still stands, though, name-calling aside. Simply coming into the the thread and blasting the Patriots isn't germane or interesting whatsoever. It would be great if you could offer some legitimate commentary on the signing, or otherwise hush up. Moss's contract, while ample, is actually smaller than Bernard Berrian's. It's not like they backed the money truck up to his house and said "take all you want Randy". So your initial assertion that he's being unjustly rewarded despite his evil nature holds no water. The guy just set an single-season TD reception record; given that, the contract is pretty short money. Trust me, nobody has forgotten that the Patriots have their detractors. And like I said, I'm not filled with sweetness and light when it comes to some sports teams and players. Personally, though, once the players/teams I don't like have been soundly beaten in the playoffs, I silence the drums of hatred until there is some fresh material to discuss. You might want to give that a try.
posted by Venicemenace at 02:21 PM on March 04, 2008
Back on topic, the Pats desperately needed to make this signing. Agree they needed to make that signing (I don't know about 'desperately'). Without Moss, Welker becomes an afterthought as he needs to operate in the slot with focus on someone else. They are OLD on defense, especially up the middle. Their DB's are certainly weaker now, though the team has managed to do OK with a receiver playing DB, so probably not as big a worry to them. Their biggest problems are - Teams "figured them out" at the end of last season. Though they still WON all those games, they had to fight hard to win those last few. - Let's face it, they were amazingly healthy last year and had a lot of balls bounce their way (Faulk making an amazing catch keeping a drive alive, Stallworth coming up with a big play in the playoffs on an incredible catch, bonehead plays at end of games by opposing QB's, etc.) You can't EXPECT things to go that way again.
posted by bdaddy at 02:23 PM on March 04, 2008
It would be great if you could offer some legitimate commentary on the signing, or otherwise hush up. well that's great considering your first post into the thread involved no such legitimate commentary (and in fact ended with you sticking out your tongue and calling him names). You only brought "legitimate commentary" into the discussion on your 3rd post, so it's a bit hypocritical to criticize him for it.
posted by bdaddy at 02:26 PM on March 04, 2008
You're the type that needs the last word, eh? My very first post contained some simple points for discussion, which some posters replied to logically. Randy wasn't always in trouble in Minnesota, the Oakland situation was sucky, Randy set a lot of records last season, etc. Maybe your attitude is preventing you from seeing the whole picture.
posted by whitedog65 at 02:30 PM on March 04, 2008
Agree they needed to make that signing (I don't know about 'desperately'). Oh no? “Randy and I are a package deal. I don’t want Randy going anywhere,” Brady said with a wide smile. “I’m going where Randy’s going. If he goes, I go. I’d like to play with him for as long as he wants to continue playing.” (link) No doubt there was some element of jest to this statement. But Brady's taken pay cuts year after year and the Patriots just let Stallworth, Colvin and Samuel walk. If they refused to shell out for Moss no doubt he'd have been pissed. And angry Brady = sad times in Foxborough. Let's face it, they were amazingly healthy last year and had a lot of balls bounce their way (Faulk making an amazing catch keeping a drive alive, Stallworth coming up with a big play in the playoffs on an incredible catch, bonehead plays at end of games by opposing QB's, etc.) You can't EXPECT things to go that way again. Meh. I'd guess EVERY winning team caught some breaks during the year. The Pats had their share of injuries - Sammy Morris was the leading rusher until he went down with an injury, and Colvin's season-ender was a big part of why the Pats looked so old up the middle down the stretch. I don't really think teams figured the Patriots out. They handled the Steelers, Jaguars and Chargers. The Giants were well-suited to match up with them and did so. They got caught in some battles with Philly and Baldimore, but this IS the NFL we're talking about, and NO team rolls every week. I think that with a restocked secondary, some more variety in the offensive playcalling, some youth at LB and those lucky breaks that all winning teams need, they'll be back in the hunt next year.
posted by Venicemenace at 02:33 PM on March 04, 2008
You only brought "legitimate commentary" into the discussion on your 3rd post, so it's a bit hypocritical to criticize him for it. Spare me. My first post mentioned that the Pats' most pressing need now is in the secondary (remember that it was a defensive back, not an old linebacker, who fell down and left Burress wide open to catch the winning TD). Pretty sure that's far more relevant than rehashed Pats-hate.
posted by Venicemenace at 02:42 PM on March 04, 2008
They are OLD on defense, especially up the middle I'm assuming you mean inside linebacker and not nose. Don't make Vince Wilfork angry. Randy wasn't always in trouble in Minnesota, the Oakland situation was sucky, Randy set a lot of records last season, etc. Maybe your attitude is preventing you from seeing the whole picture. What's the whole picture then? Spell it out for us? Seems like they signed an All Pro receiver who fits their offense for no more than the going rate. Let's talk about the topics instead of about how you hate everything about teams you don't root for.
posted by yerfatma at 02:48 PM on March 04, 2008
Way to pick and choose, yerfatma. Ever heard of context? Nice blanket statement about hating everything about some teams...funny how you screwed up and posted the part about me liking Munson even though I don't like the Yankees...whoops! Here's some more for you to pick through later and cut and paste. I don't like the Yankees. I have liked many individual Yanks through the years...Roy White, Don Mattingly, Bernie Williams, just to name a few. I even like a few of the Patriots, such as Seau, Welker, Faulk, etc. Does that meet with your approval? In the Buck thread I mentioned that I don't like Al Hrabosky, so maybe you should go ahead and call me anti-Hungarian.
posted by whitedog65 at 03:02 PM on March 04, 2008
I'm sure this thread will end well. 1 point for TBH. Now, if you could predict exactly how the Moss signing will pan out, you'll get an extra point. (Also include the Pats record for 2008-2009, thanks.) But until then, we'll all just have to wait and see.
posted by BoKnows at 03:12 PM on March 04, 2008
No doubt there was some element of jest to this statement. Brady isn't going anywhere. Doesn't he have like 3 years left on his contract? And they'd franchise him the second he indicated he wasn't signing with them. Doesn't really matter what he thinks about the Moss situation. They didn't seem to consult him with the Branch decision. Meh. I'd guess EVERY winning team caught some breaks during the year. Exactly. And without catching those breaks they wouldn't be AS WINNING, which was kind of my point. And you can't expect to stay as healthy as they did and get those same ball bounces each year. The Pats had their share of injuries - Sammy Morris was the leading rusher until he went down with an injury Sammy Morris? Really? You're using him as an example of why they weren't healthy? Healthy to me is losing someone like Willie Parker, not Sammy Morris. Especially when you have "that other guy" at running back.
posted by bdaddy at 03:26 PM on March 04, 2008
funny how you screwed up and posted the part Don't see that I did. All I did was post a link to your recent comments. 5 out of the last 8 threads you cared to comment in were Pats' threads you needed to bash the Pats in. All I'm asking for is constructive discussion of what's actually under discussion, not who you hate. It gets old.
posted by yerfatma at 03:30 PM on March 04, 2008
So sorry that you couldn't recognize a point if it put out your eye. Do I need to explain everything as if I'm talking to a five year old?
posted by whitedog65 at 03:36 PM on March 04, 2008
Yes. So now explain what your point is. And type slow, because I can't read too fast.
posted by yerfatma at 04:25 PM on March 04, 2008
Dude - you only post on Pats threads about how everyone and their brother is wrong in supporting the team. We get it. They are an unworthy bunch of dirty assholes and the ones that aren't actually dirty (Brady) are smug bastards. Anyone who supports them is probably a Nazi, but at least is a moron. Now explain to me what your team would do if their free agent wide receiver - be it Chad Johnson or Jimmie "Cracky" McPunchhiswife - was coming off a 23 touchdown performance in a 18-1 season. Would they probably re-sign him? Yeah. They would. Would you go apeshit if they didn't? Well - I fucking would. So - you likely can't have issue with any of the actions of any of the parties involved. The point therofere is simply another opportunity to remind the crew that the Pats are actually a bunch of jerks who deserve nothing but constant derision. Dude - that's the very definition of hater. Blow.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:28 PM on March 04, 2008
VeniceMenace: Moss's contract, while ample, is actually smaller than Bernard Berrian's. It's not like they backed the money truck up to his house and said "take all you want Randy".Well, that's understandable; whatever else you might say in praise or criticism of the man, Randy Moss has clearly shown he doesn't do money management particularly well...
posted by hincandenza at 05:12 PM on March 04, 2008
What Mcsmokey said. This was an interesting read to say the least. "nuttin like watching (what I thought to be adults) act like the kid that got picked last for a round of red-rover cause he/she/it is too skinny/slow/tiny/ugly and therefor hates the fucking world. Good on the Pat's getting Moss for a few more years. Like him or not he is a gifted receiver and a plus on their offence. Also another reason to cheer for the other guys when playing the Pat's. Just makes for that many more underdogs in next season, and I love the underdogs. (Never Fear, Underdog is Here!)
posted by Folkways at 05:46 PM on March 04, 2008
I have never liked Randy Moss, but even I agree he made a huge turn-around this season. Yes, they would be insane to not ink him again. At the risk of agreeing with him again on the front page, yeah, what weedy said.
posted by hawkguy at 06:05 PM on March 04, 2008
All I know is, at one point in my life I was excited about the Pats drafting Hart Lee Dykes to play WR. I'll take the hate.
posted by yerfatma at 07:37 PM on March 04, 2008
Brady isn't going anywhere. Doesn't he have like 3 years left on his contract? And they'd franchise him the second he indicated he wasn't signing with them. That's naive. If you really think it's feasible to keep a disgruntled star player on your team against his will by using the franchise tag on him in perpetuity, let me direct you to the cases of Adam Vinatieri and Asante Samuel. Sammy Morris? Really? You're using him as an example of why they weren't healthy? OK, here's one I forgot. Their highest-paid (and per Belichick, their best) defensive player, Richard Seymour, missed the first half of the season with some kind of staph infection. He was on the PUP list and only really came back into form at the end of the regular season. That sure sounds like a significant injury to me, yet they didn't lose a game without him. Sorry, but it's apparent that you don't know very much about the Patriots. And without catching those breaks they wouldn't be AS WINNING, which was kind of my point. Well, what you actually said was that they were unlikely to be as lucky, which was one of their two "biggest problems" going forward. Setting aside the proposition of whether or not the Patriots actually were exceptionally lucky in 2007 and just taking that assertion as a given, I still think the point is erroneous and irrelevant. Quite frankly, the Patriots' goal for 2009 is not to be "as winning," ie. try to go undefeated, but simply to win the Super Bowl. And I don't think their good luck had anything to do with the fact that they were in contention to do so in 2007. Sure, it had a lot to do with why they went 18-0, but who cares? As we just saw, going 18-0 does not make a team a lock to win the Super Bowl. So I don't really see why this team's biggest problem, other than its ancient linebackers, is the chance that it might lose a game or two in the regular season next year. Frankly, that isn't a problem at all.
posted by Venicemenace at 07:20 AM on March 05, 2008
(Let me just clarify -- I'm not predicting a 14-2 or 15-1 season; just pointing out that if they drop a couple of games that good fortune might have won them - like the 2007 Baltimore game - that's no big deal.)
posted by Venicemenace at 07:29 AM on March 05, 2008
That's naive. If you really think it's feasible to keep a disgruntled star player on your team against his will by using the franchise tag on him in perpetuity Especially if it is your star quarterback. There is no single player more important than the quarterback, so it is very important to keep them at least some what pleased.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:20 AM on March 05, 2008
Good god, Yang, you about gave me a heart attack. I read, "Randy Moss resigns..." It's re-signs, ya silly knob. Now can we all agree that I get Tom Brady and Randy Moss again when we do fantasy football next fall? Thanks!