12/04/24
November 20, 2007
Jets Fans Gather Each Halftime For 'Show Us Your Tits!' Ritual: The New York Times describes a halftime ritual that has been going on for years at New York Jets games. Several hundred male fans line the pedestrian ramps at Gate D, whistling and chanting for females to expose their breasts. "Sunday's scene played out for about 20 minutes, and at least one woman granted the men's request, setting off a roar." Security guards claim they can do nothing about it, but they managed to successfully detain a reporter covering the story. Photos and video end up on YouTube and MySpace (link contains nudity). One comment on Jets Blog: "Don't bring your wife/girlfriend out to the ramps at halftime ... problem avoided."
That SI story credits the Times.
posted by rcade at 04:58 PM on November 20, 2007
Well shit, we finally know what Belichick was looking to get footage of. Some class friends on that MySpace page. I'm shocked this might go in Jersey. Must make for a fan-friendly environment. Insert lame joke about the Jets' "Two-wins".
posted by yerfatma at 06:07 PM on November 20, 2007
I love the comment comparing the Jet game to mardi gras. This is so easily fixable. Security must suck.
posted by justgary at 06:14 PM on November 20, 2007
New York story that disrespects women and the immature idiot that posted it.
posted by Janowitz at 06:21 PM on November 20, 2007
This is so easily fixable. Security must suck. No kidding. All they have to do is announce they will ban alcohol at the next game if it happens again.
posted by rcade at 06:30 PM on November 20, 2007
I find it interesting that it doesn't happen at Giants games. I'm not sure what that says about fans of either team.
posted by chicobangs at 07:06 PM on November 20, 2007
You know, right now, there are over 10,000 guys in New York and New Jersey claiming they came up with the idea. "Who's doing the half time show?" "Something called.... Super Dogs." "..... Wanna go scream at chicks until they show us their tits?" "Yes. Yes I do." And people dare to deride the great American culture? At their peril, I say.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:16 PM on November 20, 2007
Security must suck. that's an understatement. the yellow jackets at the Meadowlands are fucking worthless. they seem to let this shit slide, but yet they feel the need to flex their muscle on soccer fans and their balloons.
posted by goddam at 08:01 PM on November 20, 2007
Didn't any of you see all those Steeler fans at the Jet game last weekend? I think they did it. Kidding, Steeler fan. Seriously though, most actual Jet fans (those who go to watch the games, not the halftime side show) think these guys and their exhibitionist partners are cretins. Security has let it slide. But seeing as how the antics of Ramp D have now become "all the news that's fit to print", I think there will be rapid changes, even if they're only cosmetic changes for P.R. And sports media, even if it is the august New York Times, gets the details right but without the proper perspective, again. This is a small minority of drunken morons. I don't excuse their behavior but I will say this: I've been to many games with my wife, sister, various GF's (I've been a fan for a long time). At halftime, we always go to the ramp for a smoke. I've never once seen a woman I've with be harassed in any way. The women baring their breasts are usually with the guy(s) shouting for them to do so. And, like the woman quoted in the Times, this is something most of these women seem to enjoy doing. And maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between shouting "show us your tits" at every woman who walks by and shouting "show us your tits" to women who lean over the ramp walls and purposefully engage the drunken morons in an area known for this behavior because they have exhibitionist tendencies. The Times seems to suggest it's the former. If most Jet fans are guilty of something, it's turning a blind eye to this type of behavior, rather than indulging in it.
posted by cjets at 11:27 PM on November 20, 2007
All these years I entered at gate B, son of a bitch! Banning alcohol at the game will do no good, Jets fans get to the game at least 4 hours early and tail gate. This year, it's the only worthwhile part of the day.
posted by MGDADDYO at 11:37 PM on November 20, 2007
Nice - not only is New York infested by rats it has a pig infestation as well.
posted by longgreenline at 12:29 AM on November 21, 2007
And maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between shouting "show us your tits" at every woman who walks by and shouting "show us your tits" to women who lean over the ramp walls and purposefully engage the drunken morons in an area known for this behavior because they have exhibitionist tendencies. So, there's an appropriate time to shout "show us your tits" to women in public places? Glad we got that sorted out. Nice rationalization, cjets. You stay classy, Jets fans. New York story that disrespects women and the immature idiot that posted it. Now that's some fine frontier gibberish, and it includes calling one of the founders of SportsFilter an "immature idiot." Is that double points?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:16 AM on November 21, 2007
This is a small minority of drunken morons . . . The women baring their breasts are usually with the guy(s) shouting for them to do so. And, like the woman quoted in the Times, this is something most of these women seem to enjoy doing. It's irrelevant though. No matter how few people are doing it, or who they're doing it to, it creates an atmosphere of fear and makes it clear to any women within earshot there are places in a public stadium (covered in security) they cannot sensibly go. So hoping we get at least one "Political Correctness Run [new spelling variation on amok/amuck]" argument.
posted by yerfatma at 06:19 AM on November 21, 2007
I guess I am jaded because I live in New Orleans and well, this is like a typical Mardi Gras in the French Quarter.
posted by govtdrone at 06:53 AM on November 21, 2007
I think there's a difference between Mardi Gras and a sporting event attended by thousands of families and children hosted at a publicly owned facility.
posted by rcade at 07:40 AM on November 21, 2007
America is such an odd country - highgest per capita spending on breast augmentation surgery, lowest tolerance for people showing them off. It's political correctness running amockingbird, I tell you. Joking aside - what rcade just said pretty much nails it. Context is everything. In a strip club, it's legal for strippers to be naked, oiled and sliding up and down poles. That doesn't mean it's OK for them to do it in the street - even if they are enjoying it.
posted by JJ at 07:52 AM on November 21, 2007
In a strip club, it's legal for strippers to be naked, oiled and sliding up and down poles Man, you cats know how to welcome an ethnic group to the EU.
posted by yerfatma at 08:01 AM on November 21, 2007
Man, you cats know how to welcome an ethnic group to the EU. Damn. yerfatma FTW, again.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:20 AM on November 21, 2007
I guess I am jaded because I live in New Orleans and well, this is like a typical Mardi Gras in the French Quarter. govtdrone, you leave out a few important details: One, the women at Mardi Gras are rewarded with beads for showing their tits. Two, men show their schlongs in parts of the French Quarter and are also rewarded with beads. Three, in any case, they choose to do what they do. The women on the ramps are doing the same.
posted by Tinman at 08:35 AM on November 21, 2007
Man, you cats know how to welcome an ethnic group to the EU. Damn right... the girls are hungary for work, but they only accept cash. No czechs. There was this one stripper - Ro was her name - people were lining up around the former Communist block to see her netherlands. It was Ro mania and you'd have been luxembourg to get a seat at any price. There were a couple of guys - Den and Mark - who just brought the house down. There was another fella - name of Ger - and some people liked him, but others found him a bit too hairy... a bit to manny. Jesus, EU puns. Talk about a slow day. There's probably a directive against such things.
posted by JJ at 09:06 AM on November 21, 2007
the women at Mardi Gras are rewarded with beads for showing their tits I think a quick perusal of US history would remind us: "If you're getting beads in return, you're probably getting raped."
posted by yerfatma at 09:35 AM on November 21, 2007
Don't worry — our politicians are on the case. See "njsendems.com."
posted by jjzucal at 09:48 AM on November 21, 2007
"If I had young kids, I would be mortified to bring them to a game. We need to find out why this is tolerated, who looked the other way, and why nothing has been done to end this practice." Because everyone anointed him 'Mangenius' last year and thought he could do no— oh, you mean the other disgusting act perpetrated at the Meadowlands 8 times a year.
posted by yerfatma at 10:29 AM on November 21, 2007
So, there's an appropriate time to shout "show us your tits" to women in public places? Glad we got that sorted out. Nice rationalization, cjets. Pardon me, TBH, but please point out to me where in my post I said that it was appropriate to yell show me your tits. I said there was a difference. The difference being that one is harassment, the other is a done in what can only be described as a impromptu strip club type of setting. I'm not condoning it, but let's put it in its proper perspective. No matter how few people are doing it, or who they're doing it to, it creates an atmosphere of fear and makes it clear to any women within earshot there are places in a public stadium (covered in security) they cannot sensibly go. Have you been to any of these games, fatty? It may be lewd and crude and illegal (in terms of the indecency laws) but there is no element of fear. As I said earlier, I have been on those ramps many times with women, they were never felt scared, were harassed or felt an element of fear.
posted by cjets at 11:12 AM on November 21, 2007
I guess I am jaded because I live in New Orleans and well, this is like a typical Mardi Gras in the French Quarter. When I brought it up earlier I did so because in my opinion it's such a flawed comparison. Ignoring any moral debate on mardi gras comparing what happens once a year on bourbon street to what's going on at jet games is laughable. Have you been to any of these games, fatty? It may be lewd and crude and illegal (in terms of the indecency laws) but there is no element of fear. As I said earlier, I have been on those ramps many times with women, they were never felt scared, were harassed or felt an element of fear. I don't need to ever attend one of these games to know that both my girlfriend and mother would absolutely be terrified to be walking through what I've seen from the videos. Because women you've been with have no problem with it doesn't translate to all women. (though they'd have no problem with the balloons. That's hilarious goddam)
posted by justgary at 12:05 PM on November 21, 2007
JJ, are you one of those "Continental" gentlemen that the ladies talk about? You know, those guys with Roman hands and Russian fingers? Happy TURKEY day! Are you gonna have some French fries with that? How about some NATO with cheese (Swiss?)? Don't get too much Greece in your system. You can eat with the masses, but don't let the Macedonia. EU! And drink lots of water. Constipation is such a Spain. And gas ... can you imagine the Belgian? Sorry, I'm waffling. After the meal, I'm gonna take a drive down the coast and look at the Cyprus trees. And take my dog out and tell him, "Let's hit the beach so I can Slovakia." Heck, I hope it's sunny so I get a Turkmenistan. LOL.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:29 PM on November 21, 2007
I don't need to ever attend one of these games to know that both my girlfriend and mother would absolutely be terrified to be walking through what I've seen from the videos. Because women you've been with have no problem with it doesn't translate to all women. You're right. It doesn't translate to all women (and I'm assuming that this isn't a crack about the women I've been with). But the point I'm trying to make is that I haven't seen any women that were absolutely terrified by what went on there. Don't you think the Times would have been more than happy to quote them in the article if this was the case? I believe that your girlfriend and mom would be deeply offended by what they see, but not terrified, because no one would be harrassing them or shouting anything at them.
posted by cjets at 12:29 PM on November 21, 2007
Batteries, booze, and tits.... oh my! This is just Jets fan being Jets fan. How could the rest of us feel good about ourselves if we didn't have these clowns? I say the guy who gets the most women to exposed themselves gets free batteries for the rest of the season. Slime on Jets fan.
posted by tb_mitchell at 12:31 PM on November 21, 2007
It doesn't translate to all women (and I'm assuming that this isn't a crack about the women I've been with). Not at all. I know many women that wouldn't be fazed. I'm not making any judgement. I believe that your girlfriend and mom would be deeply offended by what they see, but not terrified, because no one would be harrassing them or shouting anything at them. Well, I think you're forgetting that some people come from different backgrounds/are more sheltered than others. Some people have never attended a professional game and the experience would be intimidating by itself. I haven't been to a jets game, so my scenario might not be applicable. But if I went to a jets game and my girlfriend went alone to find a restroom and happened along a hundred men (from the article) hooting and hollering at a girl to take off her top I promise you she would get back to her seat as fast as possible. Now I won't say what that means in the big picture. I'm not making a grand statement on what that means, and maybe she'd be in a high minority, perhaps she's not the typical female that happens upon this ramp, but I have no doubt she'd be scared.
posted by justgary at 12:39 PM on November 21, 2007
But if I went to a jets game and my girlfriend went alone to find a restroom and happened along a hundred men (from the article) hooting and hollering at a girl to take off her top I promise you she would get back to her seat as fast as possible. Fair enough. And I appreciate you not making any broad generalizations of Jet fans based on a small minority of drunken cretins (unlike several other posts) or twisting my words around to make it appear that I think this is appropriate behavior, which it isn't.
posted by cjets at 12:46 PM on November 21, 2007
Well, I think you're forgetting that some people come from different backgrounds/are more sheltered than others. Some people have never attended a professional game and the experience would be intimidating by itself. And some people eat at Wendy's four times a week and never venture outside of their self-imposed comfort zone. These people should never be allowed to make the rules. P.S. The Baconator - friend, or foe? I can't bring myself to buy one, because the idea of six strips of bacon on anything is far too intimidating. I don't get six strips if I order bacon for breakfast and ask for an additional side of it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:23 PM on November 21, 2007
When Hillary becomes President, she'll take care of this. Priority 1.
posted by volfire at 02:29 PM on November 21, 2007
And some people eat at Wendy's four times a week and never venture outside of their self-imposed comfort zone. And that has absolutely nothing to do with my comment so I'm lost as to why you're quoting it.
posted by justgary at 02:34 PM on November 21, 2007
And they say Philly fans are rude. I'm all for boob-baring, don't get me wrong, but this is kinda classless. "Mmm, bacon." Homer Simpson
posted by GoBirds at 02:56 PM on November 21, 2007
I think a quick perusal of US history would remind us: "If you're getting beads in return, you're probably getting raped." This and the Mangini comment with the Belichick comment tells me that yerfatma's got the goods on this one. Good stuff. This thread has two of my favorite things: boobies and bacon. Make that three.
posted by THX-1138 at 03:30 PM on November 21, 2007
In a strip club, it's legal for strippers to be naked, oiled and sliding up and down poles Man, you cats know how to welcome an ethnic group to the EU. Comment icon posted by yerfatma at 8:01 AM CST on November 21 I groaned, then LOLed.
posted by aerotive at 04:02 PM on November 21, 2007
I don't see how this any different from any arena concert I have attended (some at good ol' Giant stadium) Boob bearing has become the status quo at events attended by lots of under sexed 18-49 year old males. I don't think these girls are forced, or intimidated in anyway to flash if they don't want to. Guys just chant the chant and if any willing women flash they all cheer and thats it. To me it seems like pretty harmless fun.
posted by HATER 187 at 04:06 PM on November 21, 2007
As with most things, "harmless fun" is in the eye of the beholder.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:20 PM on November 21, 2007
As with most things, "harmless fun" is in the eye of the beholder. I also find it amusing that some men can get into the minds of all females and declare none intimidated. I only wish I had such insights into the female psyche.
posted by justgary at 04:23 PM on November 21, 2007
And some people eat at Wendy's four times a week and never venture outside of their self-imposed comfort zone. These people should never be allowed to make the rules. Rereading my curt response I should probably explain myself. I was responding to cjets comment that no woman he had taken to a jets game felt harassed or an element of fear. I was trying to show how other women might feel differently, including women I know. I used two groups as examples, sheltered and coming from a different background (I realize now I shouldn’t have. This could affect any woman from any background). Neither of those groups include people with self-imposed comfort zones. It not only completely misrepresents what I actually said (whether intentional or not), but it’s insulting. I’m not coming from a moralistic stand point. I have no problem with nudity. I wish America was more like Europe in that regards with nude beaches and topless models on bus stop billboards. Yay breasts. I don’t care if the act is boys being boys, or classless. I do have a problem with harassment, and I have no doubt that 100 men yelling for a woman to flash in this setting is just that, and I fail to believe the mob goes silent unless a woman leans over the side of the ramp. The other women walking along the ramp aren’t walking in a vacuum unaware of what’s going on around them, nor are they placated because some women have no problem with the treatment and play along. And so we go on to compare a football game to rock concerts and mardi gras. How many more activites can we add where a segment of society is made to feel at the very least uncomfortable? Or that they feel the need for an escort? I came into this thread knowing that there would be quite a bit of “who cares, it’s harmless fun”. But I’m amazed that so many here seem incapable of understanding how the dymamics at work on that ramp are both intimidating and harassing. The whole “get over it” vibe is disheartening to put it mildly.
posted by justgary at 09:48 PM on November 21, 2007
If she had brought hot wings and beer, party's on, otherwise sleeping would have been a better pursuit. Especially given how the Jets are performing on the field.....errr, maybe that is why guys are screaming for bare breasts.
posted by Cave_Man at 12:29 AM on November 22, 2007
well jets fans need some reasons to go to the games, not like thier teams any good.
posted by rockstar2001 at 12:40 AM on November 22, 2007
How many more activites can we add where a segment of society is made to feel at the very least uncomfortable? Or that they feel the need for an escort? I just don't think that poor taste is that threatening. I refuse to promote a fearful attitude towards a drunken round of "show us your tits". And this kind of thing is easily policed. If enough patrons of the Jets decide it's a problem that needs to be solved, they can do so. The fact that it has been going on for years, but has become an overnight hot button is indicative of the hysteria caused by coverage - not necessarily the event itself. And furthmore, if there is any broadly (get it?) applied generality that I'd agree with, it would be that if we weren't so repressed (thank you purtian ancestory) we wouldn't be running around begging for flashers. My minor pop psyche itch tells me that shame is very much at the heart of these kind of proceedings.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:48 AM on November 22, 2007
I just don't think that poor taste is that threatening. well, according to this account from a visiting fan, it can get rather threatening. not everyone at those games are season ticket holders and knows what to expect on that ramp. and not every one of those guys who are chanting are gonna be good little boys and only target the women who are looking for the attention. I refuse to promote a fearful attitude towards a drunken round of "show us your tits". that's easy to say when you don't have any tits.
posted by goddam at 10:24 AM on November 22, 2007
I don't think men have the right to decide what is or isn't intimidating to women.
posted by swerve at 05:21 PM on November 22, 2007
I don't think men have the right to decide what is or isn't intimidating to women. You're right. But a "show us your tits" chant isn't intended to be taken as "show us your tits, or else..." Its more like "show us your tits, PLEASE!!!!" I said earlier that I felt it was harmless fun, I should clarify and say I think it is harmless, pathetic and rude. Just because something is rude dosen't mean it's evil or intimidating, its just rude, crass, ect. As far as goddam's link, chanting and groping are two totally different things.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:30 AM on November 23, 2007
You're right. But a "show us your tits" chant isn't intended to be taken as "show us your tits, or else..." Its more like "show us your tits, PLEASE!!!!" I don't think you can always play the "my/their intentions are pure/harmless" card and completely dismiss the idea that an action is harmful in its consequences.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2007
But I think you can suggest that the harm is relatively minor. I guess, sometimes I think that we could be a little more courteous as a people, and sometimes I think "well, shit, people. Life is tough and people are jerks. Get a fucking helmet." You expect to sit next to Lord Mountbaten at a Jets game... In New Jersey? I'm not suggesting it's not offensive. I'm just suggesting that if it makes you not want to come to the stadium, or leave your house, or the like, then that's your problem. Not a bunch of drunk idiots being entirely predictable. The stadium should make it stop. Then these guys can/will move it to the parking lot either before the game, 'whilst engaging in tail-gatery', or after 'whilst engaging in involuntary personal protein spills'. (There's two George Carlin references in the above. That's my max.)
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:18 PM on November 23, 2007
The stadium should make it stop. I think that's the real issue. If Jets management wants to market their team in this manner, then I guess that says a great deal about the organization. If not, they'll insist it stop, and if not, start pulling ticket privs or season tickets. And as for it occurring in the parking lots, that's stadium property, too. Maybe the masses should actually be yelling, "Show us your balls" to the Jets and organization and stadium operations.
posted by dyams at 02:55 PM on November 23, 2007
But I think you can suggest that the harm is relatively minor. Of course it's relatively minor. Think of all the harmful things that have been done in human history, and you can come up with roughly a gazillion that are more harmful, relative to this. But my dear departed grandfather had a saying for just such situations: "This is not a competition to see who's the worst." Grand-dad's point, quite simply, is that it often doesn't matter a fart in a high wind. that someone else is more of a jerk (or stupider, or lazier, or whatever "worse" means in the situation). This is one such case. If you want to discuss relative harm, the comparison that makes sense in this context is not between the jerks bellowing, "Show us your tits!" and someone, somewhere else, being an even bigger jerk. Think, instead, about the relative importance of being able to act like a jerk in public and bellow, "Show us your tits!" to women walking by, and being able to attend a football game without having to try to hold your head high and walk with something resembling dignity through such a barrage. Which of the two strikes you as a more reasonable expectation? Where do the two fall on the relative scale of how much it would harm someone not to be able to engage in?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:22 PM on November 23, 2007
But I think you can suggest that the harm is relatively minor. From the article: visiting Steelers fan Dawn Gottschalk unknowingly walked into the crowd where she says hundreds of men singled her out and screamed for her to show her breasts People were touching me When Gottschalk refused, it got ugly. They started yelling obscenities and throwing beer bottles When they cross the line, when it goes beyond her just being easily offended or it being her problem, let me know.
posted by justgary at 02:59 PM on November 24, 2007
You're right. But a "show us your tits" chant isn't intended to be taken as "show us your tits, or else..." Its more like "show us your tits, PLEASE!!!!" I said earlier that I felt it was harmless fun... posted by HATER 187 See, beyond the fact that I have no idea how a man can tell a woman singled out by 100 screaming men, many drunk, that it's all harmless fun and if you're intimidated it's your problem, even if I'm wrong about that, I think that statement is pretty naive. Even in New Orleans, where it's been done for years, where everyone goes into it knowing what happens, I've seen it get out of hand. I've seen it get a little scary. There is no way a group of 100 drunk men yelling at a woman to take off her top is going to come off as 'please?'. There's no way that they're just going to yell out at women who lean over the balcony, or simply shut up when a woman doesn't comply. Goddam put it best when she said: it can get rather threatening. not everyone at those games are season ticket holders and knows what to expect on that ramp. and not every one of those guys who are chanting are gonna be good little boys and only target the women who are looking for the attention. And the article backs that up.
posted by justgary at 02:16 PM on November 25, 2007
While I like to see topless women as much as the next guy, this behavior is clearly out of line. Beyond the harassment factor, one needs to keep in mind that many kids witness this scene as well. I should be able to take my son to a football game without having to explain the horrid behavior of our fellow fans. And, I should certainly be able to take my 17 year old daughter to a football game without having to worry about 100 men trying to harass her into showing her breasts. This is not a situation exclusive to Jet's games. Similar circumstances play out in stadiums across the country. Somehow, it is now acceptable behavior to get drunk and abusive at sporting events. If it's not a "show us your tits" section it's the yell obscentities at visiting fans section. Probably not the end of civilization as we know it, but it is not a good thing.
posted by dviking at 05:47 PM on November 25, 2007
This is not a situation exclusive to Jet's games. Similar circumstances play out in stadiums across the country. Somehow, it is now acceptable behavior to get drunk and abusive at sporting events. If it's not a "show us your tits" section it's the yell obscentities at visiting fans section. Very well said. There is this notion that at certain events, you have a license to act in ways that would be considered completely out of line in other situations. People seem to have problems discriminating between the standard of conduct changing somewhat (for example, yelling loudly at a football game vs. yelling loudly at the dinner table) and going out the window altogether.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:28 AM on November 26, 2007
Hm, SI recently posted a similar story.