12/22/24
November 03, 2007
Navy Beats Notre Dame In Triple Overtime: It took 44 years, but the Navy football team finally beat Notre Dame. The Midshipmen had not won a game against Notre Dame since Roger Staubach was the QB in 1963.
posted by urall cloolis to football at 09:00 PM - 41 comments
Let's not skip over that 1-8 record so quickly. Let's sit back and enjoy it for many weeks.
posted by billsaysthis at 09:37 PM on November 03, 2007
All I kept wondering was WTF was up with Weiss's asinine call at the end of the game with 4th and 8 on 24 yard line. Last night at the state playoffs, our kicker made a bloody 55-yarder. I don't recall any stats, but I'd think ND's kicker at least had a shot at making a 45 yarder. I know it would have been no gimme', but it sure seemed like a better idea than going for it on 4th and frickin 8. Damn. Someone's been watching too much LSU.
posted by jmd82 at 09:48 PM on November 03, 2007
Let's not skip over that 1-8 record so quickly. Let's sit back and enjoy it for many weeks. Can I get an amen from the congregation!!!!
posted by budman13 at 10:00 PM on November 03, 2007
What a great finish. I am always glad to see one of the military schools have a shot at a bowl. The deck is really stacked against their chances of being successful at the 1-a level.
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 10:16 PM on November 03, 2007
You know, Weiss has never been a head coach before, at least according to my knowledge. Perhaps it would be good for him to return to being an offensive coordinator. For two years he has done a terrible job of recruiting defensive players, and it has shown. In my estimation at this point, Weiss is one of those guys who has went one level too high up the food chain. There is no shame in being a top notch offensive coordinator. Hopefully he'll go back to that.
posted by brainofdtrain at 10:49 PM on November 03, 2007
posted by NoMich at 11:00 PM on November 03, 2007
NoMich, Interesting read. Is the slate similar to the onion?
posted by brainofdtrain at 11:26 PM on November 03, 2007
Amen, budman, Amen! However, I now have a dilemma. Do I cheer for the Gold-domers to lose out and finish 1-11. That would be nice to savor all winter. Or, do I hope they win their last three meaningless games? That way Weiss can point to a turnaround, and they may keep him longer, thus ensuring that ND remains a losing program.
posted by dviking at 11:38 PM on November 03, 2007
This is terrible. 43 years, and Weis lets it go down. I think he's toast, and I am not saying such decision is bad. I could tell from his face on TV today. FIRED was written all over his face.
posted by SFValley_Dude at 12:06 AM on November 04, 2007
First of all, I'll give it to you that Weiss has been a bad head coach so far. You can not, in all fairness, expect him to do the ultimate with Willingham's recruits. Who accused Ty Willingham of even being a decent recruiter? Willingham is gone from ND and will most likely be gone from washington soon too with records like: 2-9 in 2005, 5-7 in 2006, and 3-6 so far for 2007. Granted it is better than 1-8 but not much. Willingham is not doing a thing with the recruits given to him either. Personally, I dislike ND too, and would like to see Weiss gone before HIS recruits move in take over that team, and find out what THEY can do. This sounds familiar to what some of the idiotic media was saying earlier on in the NFL season about this guy. I think it takes more than just two years to come in and put in "your system" as a new coach. When the coaching staff gets changed every two years, you never get a chance to see any results from the last guy you had hired.
posted by jojomfd1 at 06:42 AM on November 04, 2007
I think he's toast, and I am not saying such decision is bad. I could tell from his face on TV today. FIRED was written all over his face. Definitely. With only 9 years or so left on his contract and this rebuilding year looking like a rebuilding year, he's gone tomorrow.
posted by yerfatma at 07:47 AM on November 04, 2007
You can not, in all fairness, expect him to do the ultimate with Willingham's recruits. I think that this is a poor argument. Weiss had more of his recruits and fewer of Willingham's this year than in his two previous years; you can look that up (or use simple logic). Considering the ten year contract that Weis received, it would be extremely costly to fire him. For that reason alone, I don't think that Notre Dame should become rid of him. Then again, I thought that it was an enormous mistake to fire Willingham. Race aside, Notre Dame had a remarkable opportunity to learn the lesson that Nebraska, Miami, and Florida are learning from Connecticut, Boise State, and Hawaii: the era of the perennial football powerhouse is over. Instead, what ND should have been doing was focus on being respectable on the gridiron and exemplary in the classroom. *sigh*
posted by avogadro at 08:30 AM on November 04, 2007
However, I now have a dilemma. Do I cheer for the Gold-domers to lose out and finish 1-11. That would be nice to savor all winter. Or, do I hope they win their last three meaningless games? That way Weiss can point to a turnaround, and they may keep him longer, thus ensuring that ND remains a losing program. That is a real dilemma for certain. Hmmm....I've got to say let him win those last games and that way we can bask in their failure for years to come. Raising our glass year after year to their demise. How sweet.
posted by budman13 at 10:27 AM on November 04, 2007
Do you guys remember when Walsh had taken over the 49ers. 11 losses. Give Weiss two more years with his recruits.It is however great to have the Irish humbled for a time.
posted by papajohn at 10:28 AM on November 04, 2007
I think that if ND loses more than 3 regular season games next year, he is toast after next season. I think the goal now is to make claussen the next Quinn, and they find out next year. If he loses four, Charlie's done. However, I honestly believ Claussen will win it all. Then again we look at Cat Osterman, a female softball player at Texas. When she arrived, it was predicted she would deliver 4 titles. She left Texas with 0.
posted by SFValley_Dude at 11:56 AM on November 04, 2007
First of all, I'll give it to you that Weiss has been a bad head coach so far. You can not, in all fairness, expect him to do the ultimate with Willingham's recruits. This is such a bogus argument at this point. Notre Dame still has more talent on the field than just about every team they have faced. Imagine how difficult it is for Navy to recruit players to a military academy during a freakin' war. Notre Dame's problem is not talent. I suspect the problem has more to do with Weis's decision to outscheme other teams instead of focusing on teaching his team fundamentals like blocking and tackling.
posted by bperk at 12:19 PM on November 04, 2007
If Weis was a good gameday coach, why did they beat UCLA and lose to navy? It does not make sense. These odd things are like the Spartans meltdown agaginst Weis in the rain last year. Weis is the second coming of John L. Smith.
posted by SFValley_Dude at 12:36 PM on November 04, 2007
perk, How, based on the teams he has coached, has he actually proven that he can "outscheme" anybody? I'm not convinced he has actually proven anything there.
posted by brainofdtrain at 04:21 PM on November 04, 2007
How, based on the teams he has coached, has he actually proven that he can "outscheme" anybody? 4th and 8 on the 24 yard line at the end of the 4th quarter. Passing up the field goal to give them a lead for a failed first down attempt. That is "outscheming" at its worst.
posted by jmd82 at 06:33 PM on November 04, 2007
The problem is there is no real accountability at Notre Dame. Notre Dame fans are too loyal to question the program. Notre Dame has no real conference, so every year they are essentially competing with "themselves". Charlie Weis's contract is obviously way too long. So all of a sudden, there's nobody left to criticize. They are a team on an enormous pedestal and no safety net. Meanwhile, nobody's talking about Michigan. As a Buckeye fan, I'll be damned if I'm not proud of the way Lloyd Carr turned things around after two disastrous, early-season losses. There's a guy who managed to keep his career intact, not because of the length of his contract, but by his ability to keep his team together after a loss that brought them to the brink of disaster. And they are positioned to potentially win the Big Ten. And fans in Columbus will be biting their nails when Ohio State rolls into Ann Arbor this year. The question is simply this: why could Michigan turn it around, but Notre Dame couldn't? I'm sorry, but on the merits of his post-game interviews alone, I feel fairly comfortable stating that Weis talk and acts like a stupid fuck. He's not talking to his players through the media, he's not talking to the community that supports him. He has no upside. He doesn't appear confident. He doesn't even act that accountable to the spirit and legacy of the program. He just is. Almost Belicheck-ian. But sorry brother, this isn't the NFL. And it's starting to disgust me how overweight he is.
posted by flammable carrot at 09:49 PM on November 04, 2007
Notre Dame's problem is not talent. Sure, lots of big talent is just beating the door down to play for a losing coach and team with no end in sight. As for the blocking and tackling, those are fundamentals that should be intact long before these players are even being considered for recruitment to any DIV. 1 college. I'm not convinced of the "outscheming" school of thought either. Wies could just be trying to finally make something happen, and get a little momentum going for ND for a change to see how his players respond. Perhaps he went for it today because, as of 11-3-07 ND is 13 of 15 for PAT's, and a horrible 5 of 10 for FG's it is all right here. Hell he only had a 50% chance of making a 41 yard FG, or going for it. Plus didn't both teams already miss one FG earlier in the game? I don't like either choice. Nobod's talking about Michigan because this is a thread about Notre Dame, and Charlie Weis.
posted by jojomfd1 at 10:39 PM on November 04, 2007
GO NAVY!!!!! GO "any team" who plays the Irish. Besides the more games Charlie Weis loses, the longer Notre Dame etends his contract. If you think im joking call Ty Willinham, who didn't have a losing record, and ask him how long did he stay in Souh Bend? Things to make you go Hmmmm.
posted by Awwgood at 02:56 AM on November 05, 2007
perk, How, based on the teams he has coached, has he actually proven that he can "outscheme" anybody? I'm not convinced he has actually proven anything there. I didn't mean that I think he has actually outschemed anyone. It's just his focus is on Xs & Os instead of basics. Installing multiple offenses when he has a young and inexperienced offensive line? The offensive line has had to protect how many different QBs this year? Yeah, what a mystery that the line is struggling. As for the blocking and tackling, those are fundamentals that should be intact long before these players are even being considered for recruitment to any DIV. 1 college. I'm not sure that you even believe this. High school coaches/gym teachers have taught these kids all they need to know?
posted by bperk at 07:29 AM on November 05, 2007
Darren Rovell asks an interesting question about Weis's contract. Bottom line for Rovell: the contract is so huge that ND probably couldn't fire Weis even if they wanted to.
posted by tieguy at 08:03 AM on November 05, 2007
One question that still puzzles me: how in the hell did ND beat my Bruins?
posted by jjzucal at 08:53 AM on November 05, 2007
Darren Rovell asks an interesting question about Weis's contract. Bottom line for Rovell: the contract is so huge that ND probably couldn't fire Weis even if they wanted to. Very strange how they extended his contract midway through his first year. One question that still puzzles me: how in the hell did ND beat my Bruins? Aren't the Bruins famous for losing at least one game they should win every year?
posted by bperk at 10:26 AM on November 05, 2007
Meanwhile, nobody's talking about Michigan. As a Buckeye fan, I'll be damned if I'm not proud of the way Lloyd Carr turned things around after two disastrous, early-season losses. There's a guy who managed to keep his career intact, not because of the length of his contract, but by his ability to keep his team together after a loss that brought them to the brink of disaster. And they are positioned to potentially win the Big Ten. And fans in Columbus will be biting their nails when Ohio State rolls into Ann Arbor this year. The question is simply this: why could Michigan turn it around, but Notre Dame couldn't? As a Michigan alum - I appreciate Flammable Carrot's analogy. Nobod's talking about Michigan because this is a thread about Notre Dame, and Charlie Weis. I believe the reference here was to the ability of each head coach - Weis vs. Carr to keep the ship on track in the face of adversity, when both programs were 0-2. The outcome of their game should have shown something... Given that fact that no blue-chippers would even consider one of the Service Academies to play football, I feel that the effort and enthusiasm displayed by the Midshipmen was very admirable indeed. Also, there will be no BCS plum in their stocking this Christmas (of which they wouldn't share)
posted by B-2 Spirit at 12:31 PM on November 05, 2007
One question that still puzzles me: how in the hell did ND beat my Bruins? Even Notre Dame can manage to win when the opposing team's quarterback is a third string walk-on who turned the ball over five times.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:11 PM on November 05, 2007
Fellow Spo-Fi posters, Upon further investigation - I have learned the Notre Dame is to recieve a "projected" pay-out of $1.3 Million for just participating in the BCS "Arrangement" (sic) This to me seems very, very wrong. $1.3 million for WHAT? To buy Charlie Weis a hankie or some tissue? (close-up's on Saturday showed he could have used some) I give up . . .
posted by B-2 Spirit at 03:46 PM on November 05, 2007
$1.3 million for bringing in viewers and for packing the stadium for their bowl games. ND's fan nation is legion after all. Heck, I think *they* get more press in Chicago than any Illinois university teams do. Besides, I don't think anybody anticipated ND being this god-awful, ever.
posted by NoMich at 04:01 PM on November 05, 2007
Several publications and experts projected Notre Dame to be bad, possibly even miss a bowl game but I haven't seen anything that predicted them to be this terrible.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:12 PM on November 05, 2007
NoMich - perhaps you misunderstood what I was getting at . . . The BCS "Arrangement" provides that Norte Dame will receive a projected $1.3 million R E G A R D L E S S of whether they make it to a sanctioned BCS game . . . O R - N O T ! ! ! The usual payout per team is somewhere around $4.5 million each . . . Evidently being "god-awful" still has its advantages . . . IF you're Notre Dame
posted by B-2 Spirit at 05:48 PM on November 05, 2007
Do you have a source B-2?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:13 PM on November 05, 2007
Sure Ying Yang - here ya go www.collegefootballpoll.com/bcs_explained.html Under the heading "New Structure" 4th Paragraph
posted by B-2 Spirit at 06:19 PM on November 05, 2007
"Future Structure" - my mistake
posted by B-2 Spirit at 06:34 PM on November 05, 2007
Damn. That doesn't make much sense to me. Thanks for the link B-2
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:52 PM on November 05, 2007
Notre Dame gets special treatment because they have a huge fan following and they travel well. The bowls love them and TV audiences do too -- at least I think they still do, though Weis is testing that theory these days.
posted by rcade at 07:00 PM on November 05, 2007
Notre Dame gets special treatment because they have a huge fan following and they travel well. The bowls love them and TV audiences do too The Bowls love them IF they could qualify for one. NBC signed them to long term contract and are backpedaling and putting them on alternate NBC affiliates instead of national (at least in my area). Their target audience will get used to going to the golf course or playing Bingo instead of staying home to watch them if they keep playing crappy ball. They make the money due to their past and those shelling it out are not going to resign them. As for the BCS situation- that is as ridiculous as....the BCS itself.
posted by urall cloolis at 10:48 PM on November 05, 2007
I'm not sure Notre Dame's vaunted legacy matters when they try to recruit south of the Mason Dixon line.
posted by Newbie Walker at 12:41 AM on November 06, 2007
I wonder how many of the TV viewers are watching hoping to see ND get beat. I know that is the only reason I watched the second half and OT last week.
posted by dviking at 09:18 AM on November 06, 2007
I am sure this is not what Notre Dame (1-8) had in mind when they signed Charlie Weis to a lucrative contract after two years of coaching Ty Willingham's recruits successfully. I find it encouraging for the Midshipmen to have finally won one of these games. It has been a long time.