11/05/24
April 18, 2007
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY to culture at 08:32 AM - 54 comments
Thank you yerfatma. 'nuff said.
posted by smithers at 09:34 AM on April 18, 2007
What yerfatma said.
posted by scully at 09:38 AM on April 18, 2007
This was pretty lame i think. I think that this rutger's incident hasn't "woken" us up to anything; it has merely shown how up in arms we are about a washed up shock-jock making stupid comments, but unwilling to do the hard work of education and prevention of the surfacing of these destructive attitudes (wow what a radical thought). We all knew that racism and sexism existed in the US, and the sports world was no exception. How has Imus' rant moved the conversation forward? Are the winds of change now blowing? No, all that has happened is that a stupid radio host got reprimanded nationally and fired. All that is happening now is that the women's basketball team at rutgers are now being used to make money by corporations (good point yerfatma), while changing nothing overall in America, including the # of people who watch their games. When will we learn as a society that change begins from the ground up, in individual families and communities? Trying to shock us from a national media blitz effects no long-lasting change, at least by itself. Decrying the sad state of how racism and sexism exists may salve our national conscience, but it doesn't change our responsibility to roll our sleeves up and do something in our own homes and cities. I wish America would quit buying into the media circus that surrounds these incidents. If we would all listen to the story, say to ourselves "wow, how sad for that man to think that way, and how sad for those women," turn off the tv, and talk to our children again about the problems of racism and sexism, and model an attitude of true equality in the community, things might really start to change. We would quit watching our glorified soap-operas from the media, and do something to make things better. That makes sense i think, but i will admit it is easier to merely cave into the media circus, feel horrified for weeks, and do nothing to change.
posted by brainofdtrain at 09:46 AM on April 18, 2007
Yeah, i guess yerfatma said it better in a lot less words.
posted by brainofdtrain at 09:46 AM on April 18, 2007
Lets see... Thank you Spofi for helping me kill 10 minutes while I was on hold Thank you AT&T for putting me on hold to enable me to read Spofi Thank you idiots of the world for making a story out of nothing Thank you marketing machine for capitalizing on it
posted by timdawg at 09:50 AM on April 18, 2007
And just to be clear, I've posted this to yet again demonstrate how big corporations will take advantage of the pain of others. By no means did this "Thank You" leave me warm and fuzzy. It left me cold and pukey.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:54 AM on April 18, 2007
Weak and inaccurate. I'd call it exploiting, except it's so far off base that no one is in danger of actually being exploited. Nike is straight losing it. Or maybe I am. Either way - I'm comfortable with it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:54 AM on April 18, 2007
Close this thread. yerfatma had to go and make sense, say all that needed said and ruin it for everyone. Good hustle
posted by Debo270 at 09:56 AM on April 18, 2007
At'a'boy yerfatma! thank u fer savin me typin. But, what was tha poin of this article anywayz. I just buoght a pare of NIKE sandals and love em.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:20 AM on April 18, 2007
Yeah, I didn't mean to guide the discussion in one direction. Feel free to discuss anything you want related to how heartless corporations are killing Americans (specifically Zach de la Rocha). I find it wonderful we have "National Conversations" on the airwaves, interrupted only by paid advertisements, in an age where we are unable to converse with our next-door neighbors. Thank you Wolf Blitzer!
posted by yerfatma at 10:21 AM on April 18, 2007
I wonder if the good people in the athletics department at Rutgers were asked before this was done. We should email this to them. Then Nike can apoligze to the team too.
posted by Debo270 at 10:37 AM on April 18, 2007
I wonder if the good people in the athletics department at Rutgers were asked before this was done. Why would they have been?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:45 AM on April 18, 2007
I Guess "aware of this" not asked would be a better statement. With as mad as they were about Imus, they may be mad about being exploited by Nike too.
posted by Debo270 at 10:48 AM on April 18, 2007
they may be mad about being exploited by Nike too. it's free advertising. why would they be mad?
posted by goddam at 10:59 AM on April 18, 2007
'Cause chicks get bitchy when you don't talk to them. Or if they got their Aunt Flo and stuff.
posted by yerfatma at 11:12 AM on April 18, 2007
it's free advertising. why would they be mad? Well they managed to blow the Imus thing way out of proportion. Who's next. or the reason yerfatma listed. either way
posted by Debo270 at 11:16 AM on April 18, 2007
yea they kinda went overboard on the whole Imus thing. i mean cmon its not like he assulted any of them. and give credit to sports center for draggin out the whole fricken thing a lot longer than it should have been.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 11:27 AM on April 18, 2007
Theres another basketball tournament in march? Just kidding. And about Imus anybody remember Larry Kruger got fired for saying that the Giants latin American hitters were "brain-dead Caribbean hitters hacking at slop nightly." So of course Imus was going to get in trouble for what he said. In my opinion the Imus comment was much worse.
posted by evilchris23 at 02:37 PM on April 18, 2007
Well they managed to blow the Imus thing way out of proportion. Who's next. Explain, please. How, exactly, did the Rutgers team members blow it out of proportion?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:19 PM on April 18, 2007
LBB, Not to speak out of turn (forgive me debo if i am), but i think debo was referring to the media, although the quote he was citing dealt with the Rutger's women b-ball team.
posted by brainofdtrain at 05:52 PM on April 18, 2007
Thank You Payless for selling cheaper shoes so that I can continue to utterly disregard the swoosh stripe juggernaut.
posted by THX-1138 at 05:54 PM on April 18, 2007
Makes me even happier to sport my Starbury gear. Nike has lost their mind.
posted by cardsfan at 10:38 PM on April 18, 2007
Wow this place is getting political. Thank you for linking this because at least 2 people that posted here and 5 people that read the link found a pair of shoes they liked while at our site and are on their way to buy them as we speak (all though they wouldn't admit it). -Nike Well they managed to blow the Imus thing way out of proportion. Who's next Who's next to get blown out of proportion? I don't know, Michael Vick NOT being in possession of weed (and the 100 post Sportsfilter thread that's sure to follow) gets my vote.
posted by Bishop at 01:22 AM on April 19, 2007
This reminds me of when the corporations cashed in on 9/11 by doing all their "we're not really evil, we love America, we're good patriots, btw, BUY OUR CRAP" ads.
posted by Drood at 02:56 AM on April 19, 2007
Thanks brain. You hit it. I did mean the media, just didn't word it correctly.
posted by Debo270 at 09:19 AM on April 19, 2007
Ah, thanks for clarifying, brain and debo. I was confused for a bit there. For the most part, the media squanders its chances to promote intelligent consideration of larger issues that are brought to light by various incidents, but that's not a new thing. (oh, and what Drood said)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:42 AM on April 19, 2007
You don't really hear about Imus anymore since a real tragedy took place. I still have to add my own (sarcastic) take on a recent event. Thank you national media for making a legend out of Cho Seung-Hui, ensuring beyond a doubt this type of horrific scene takes place again, sooner than we care to imagine.
posted by dyams at 09:49 AM on April 19, 2007
dyams i agree. ever sense the tragity SC has been nuthin but highlights. My prayers to VT students.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2007
Thank you national media for making a legend out of Cho Seung-Hui, ensuring beyond a doubt this type of horrific scene takes place again, sooner than we care to imagine. Two questions for you: 1. In what way did the national media "mak[e] a legend out of" this guy, and what would proper coverage look like? 2. In what way would the proper coverage described in 1. make "this type of horrific scene" less likely in the future?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2007
The media today sucks balls Sorry for no real insight or facts backing that up everyone. Just feelin it ya know
posted by Debo270 at 12:12 PM on April 19, 2007
what would proper coverage look like? I think proper coverage would have a prominent focus on the victims and less focus that panders to our fascination with insanity and the macabre. All of the interest seems to be focused on the killer -- who he was, what did he look like, what was his mindset, what was his history, etc. The victims sometimes seem to be extras in this reality show about the killer. I don't believe it was necessary or appropriate for NBC to release as much information about the package the killer sent them as they did. It was a reach for our desire to get inside the mind of the killer, the effect of which is the creation of a "legend" of sorts. One of the victims was a Holocaust survivor. The guy survived one of the most horrific events of human destruction the world has ever seen only to be gunned down by some punk who seemed to be overwhelmingly disappointed at the discovery that college kids are indulgent. Anyone can be a victim. It takes a special mind to be a killer. It's not better news, it's just better selling news. On topic: what yerfatma said. Nike sucks.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:18 PM on April 19, 2007
Crafty, thank you. You could not have said it better. 2. In what way would the proper coverage described in 1. make "this type of horrific scene" less likely in the future I dont think it can be less likely but the way it has been covered has made it more likely. There are a lot of kids out there with similar issues and all this does is feed the monster. This person felt they were an outcast and treated poorly. No one knew who he was. HE claimed "now people will know who I am" and they do. Every kid like this can now have someone to relate to and a way in their mind to finally be recognized by all those who cast them asided
posted by Debo270 at 12:26 PM on April 19, 2007
Here in Toronto, the police, transit commission and local newspapers/TV reporters have an agreement. They do not publicize the suicides that take place on the subway. The reason? To not glorify, sensationalize, encourage or tacitly condone, or desensitize the activity of jumping/pushing people in front of subway trains. I think it's a good idea. As far as I can tell, the media no longer simply reports events - there is no 5th estate or 4th wall as it originally was considered. They are as much a part of the system and society as the news they report. You can see this in any number of levels - from newscasters interviewing other newscasters as "insiders", or experts on a particular subject; to killers mailing in manifestos and videos during their crime. It's not enough to suggest something as old-fashioned and overly simplfied as "it's our job to report the news as it is presented to us".
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:44 PM on April 19, 2007
I think proper coverage would have a prominent focus on the victims and less focus that panders to our fascination with insanity and the macabre. Am I weird for thinking the ideal amount of coverage would be almost none at all? We've had shootings like this before, at schools and elsewhere and none of the coverage amounts to much more than gawking at a car wreck on the highway. It happened, but unless you know the people involved or can somehow help, drive on. We're not going to stop people from snapping and banning access to guns wouldn't make that much of a difference. Putting Wolf Blitzer/ David Gregory/ Spider Jerusalem on the scene and shoving a mic in front of anyone tangentially related with enough of a class-impairment to answer "What was he like in the first grade?" doesn't do anything except make people sit through ads.
posted by yerfatma at 01:11 PM on April 19, 2007
I don't believe it was necessary or appropriate for NBC to release as much information about the package the killer sent them as they did. I couldn't agree more. Giving a killer the exact reward he wants for killing 30+ people is just gross. Does anyone understand him better now? I seriously doubt it.
posted by bperk at 01:13 PM on April 19, 2007
Not to make light of the subject but we all know or should know that some corporation (no matter how heartfelt they may sound or come across) will try to profit off of this tragedy. Look at what happened after 9/11, movie studios made movies telling the victims perspective of what transpired on Flight 93 and also a movie about the WTC attack. It's such a shame that someone would be so money hungry that they would profit over that but I'm not sure if money is the sole reasoning behind the shady things that corporations do. The coverage that the V-Tech shooter is recieving is way more than what the Trenchcoat Mafia kids or even what the Colombine shooting recieved as far as 'getting to know' the killer is concerned. I have to agree that the victims should be the focal point and not the shooter because IMO, eventually there'll be copycats emulating this kid because they also got picked on or made fun of or whatever else this kid thought of that triggered his rampage. Instead of the media trying to 'understand the mind of a killer', they should apologize to the families that lost a father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister or loved one, for the lack of respect for their loss in this senseless attack. Just sad~
posted by BornIcon at 01:34 PM on April 19, 2007
It happened, but unless you know the people involved or can somehow help, drive on. I think it is productive for people to know after the fact whether the driver who caused the accident was using a cell phone at the time. Every incident offers some lesson, small or grand, when viewed in retrospect. An examination of the internal workings of the mind of a killer is not, in my opinion, civically necessary or productive to anyone but a psychologist, no matter how much NBC tells me otherwise. Not until we give the okay to citizens' arrests with the just cause of being "a quiet and creepy loner."
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 01:47 PM on April 19, 2007
The way Crafty Sousepaw and yerfatma put it sums it all up exactly for me. I think proper coverage would have a prominent focus on the victims and less focus that panders to our fascination with insanity and the macabre. (Sousepaw) I don't believe it was necessary or appropriate for NBC to release as much information about the package the killer sent them as they did. It was a reach for our desire to get inside the mind of the killer, the effect of which is the creation of a "legend" of sorts. (Sousepaw) Airing all the pictures of this guy posing with his guns was ridiculous. What purpose did it serve? If this is basically the last thing your child had to see prior to being gunned down, would you want these types of images plastered all over? Media outlets who put these pictures out were doing it for no other reason than to attract viewers. Am I weird for thinking the ideal amount of coverage would be almost none at all? (Yerfatma) All acts like this, and terrorism in general, is done for one, specific reason: To gain attention and notoriety. Unfortunately, many individuals, young people included, will attempt suicide. It's not too much of a reach to envision them wanting to make some huge, tragic impact before they go. The media, in this country especially, pander to the wants of crazed individuals, not because they're doing society a favor; they're selfishly trying to one-up their competitors. This wacked-out kid played the media like a fiddle. He was nothing before this tragedy, now everyone knows everything about him, and won't forget him (until, of course, someone does something even worse, God forbid). NBC should have handed the items this guy sent to them over to the authorities, and that should have been the extent of it. I read it somewhere that NBC broadcasting this stuff wasn't journalism; it was opening mail.
posted by dyams at 02:00 PM on April 19, 2007
Interesting comments, thanks y'all. I'm inclined to most agree with yerfatma, i.e., "almost none at all", for a couple of different reasons, chiefly respect for the dead and their loved ones. As for the contention that publicizing such acts inspires others, I believe that that's true to a degree, but with important caveats. Going on a rampage like this is like being a suicide bomber: whatever else happens, you end up dead. It's not something you do unless you're hard-core alienated and antisocial, and you fail to see any alternatives. If that's the case, you'll look at something like Columbine, as this latest nutjob did, and conclude that that's the sensible thing to do. But most weird loner geek kids who get teased like this guy did, or like Harris and Klebold were, get over it -- some because they've got a genuinely forgiving spirit, but most probably because they see that letting it go and getting on with life is a better option for them. The irony of Columbine was that in many cases, instead of inspiring schools to reach out and create a more humane environment for the loner geek kids, it seems to have resulted in their regarding these kids as ticking time bombs, further increasing their isolation. Change that, and you change the whole outcome. No amount of media coverage of any kind can "inspire" someone to do a nutty if they look at the end for the result for the killer -- he had his "revenge", sure, but now he's both dead and reviled -- and can come up with anything that looks better.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:32 PM on April 19, 2007
The irony of Columbine was that in many cases, instead of inspiring schools to reach out and create a more humane environment for the loner geek kids, it seems to have resulted in their regarding these kids as ticking time bombs Word, and thus my disbelief in the ability of the media to educate. Every cynic a disappointed romantic, I suppose.
posted by yerfatma at 03:47 PM on April 19, 2007
I dont think it can be less likely but the way it has been covered has made it more likely. There are a lot of kids out there with similar issues and all this does is feed the monster. This person felt they were an outcast and treated poorly. No one knew who he was. HE claimed "now people will know who I am" and they do. Every kid like this can now have someone to relate to and a way in their mind to finally be recognized by all those who cast them asided This is a great point, b/c apparently Hui made a reference to the killers at Littleton, equating them with martyrdom. So it looks like that (over)coverage of that event had a somewhat direct effect on Hui's actions. All that to say that we should quit broadcasting it on national tv. And yes, i'm aware of the irony of me getting that info from the media and then blaming the media for contributing to the problem. At times i'm guilty of being a part of the problem.
posted by brainofdtrain at 05:58 PM on April 19, 2007
At times i'm guilty of being a part of the problem. We all are sometimes without even realizing it. Look at the way most of the public views Pro athletes. It's the whole negative press factor. Look at our community here. The negative threads are 5 times as long as the positive and 10 times more likely to appear. We are all part of the viewing public and we all believe we have the right to know everything (freedom of the press). Negative stories in any medium are way more abundant. It seems we would rather express our outrage then our appreciation. Cases in point. Note the post count difference in the threads were the topic is one that might draw a comment like, 'nice post', or 'good story, thanks', vs. a thread or link in which someone is in trouble, arrested, or punished. Recent positive threads, here , and here. Recent negative threads, here, and here. Recently we have paid more attention to the threads that involve people getting into trouble, than we have paid to threads where prominent sports figures die. Notice the post count here, and here. Is it our nature? I'm not sure. It just seems like a popular topic when we point out down falls, punishments or anything negative. Isn't dieing negative? Sure it is, I guess those posts aren't as long unless there is someone to blame in them.
posted by Bishop at 07:41 PM on April 19, 2007
Bishop i appreciate your point; it is well taken. I think that humans do have a propensity to think on the macabre and sinister, and also to see others fall and judge. Why that is the case is another subject for debate, but it does seem likely that we can all sympathize with your point. The best thing we can do is not participate in the media circus.
posted by brainofdtrain at 10:12 PM on April 19, 2007
Am I weird for thinking the ideal amount of coverage would be almost none at all? We've had shootings like this before, at schools and elsewhere and none of the coverage amounts to much more than gawking at a car wreck on the highway. It happened, but unless you know the people involved or can somehow help, drive on. We're not going to stop people from snapping and banning access to guns wouldn't make that much of a difference. Putting Wolf Blitzer/ David Gregory/ Spider Jerusalem on the scene and shoving a mic in front of anyone tangentially related with enough of a class-impairment to answer "What was he like in the first grade?" doesn't do anything except make people sit through ads. Very well put yerfatma, one of your best. Look at what happened after 9/11, movie studios made movies telling the victims perspective of what transpired on Flight 93 and also a movie about the WTC attack. Those movies were making those vcictims out to be heros more than victims. Both movies were showing the american public and anyone else that saw them look at the resolve of our citizens, even when faced with certain death and unarmed they will fight until the end(flight 93). If you saw the movie World Trade Center, it was a true story about two PA cops that made it out of the pile. Another story of resolve and strength. Neither movies glorified the terrorists. That crap that was shown on NBC just made the VT shooter a hero to any kid who is picked on to much, or doesn't feel like he fits in. It already started today with the copycat crap, it was in another thread there were 3 or 4 of us that had kids with bomb threats at school.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:50 AM on April 20, 2007
Hey jojomfd1, I can understand how some people would want to say, "Oh, they made heros out of the victims" but the fact of the matter is, some of the people that lost loved ones in that tragedy are not interested in re-living that horrific day for what some would like to call 'entertainment'.
posted by BornIcon at 06:58 AM on April 20, 2007
I can completely understand that, and that is not what was meant by my post. I was just pointing out the differences in the airing of the two.
posted by jojomfd1 at 07:36 AM on April 20, 2007
some of the people that lost loved ones in that tragedy are not interested in re-living that horrific day for what some would like to call 'entertainment'. Very good point. I'm sure several writers are hard at work this very minute trying to put out a screenplay on these events. Also, the network crime investigation shows are probably meeting to discuss what would be an appropriate time to wait until they can air an episode that deals with a situation that closely resembles Virginia Tech. Network TV is the worst culprit there is, and their bullshit attitude about giving a damn about anyone or anything but their own ratings is pathetic. How many shows deal with killings and murder? We're supposed to gobble this stuff up every day of the week, then turn around and act like these networks are actually concerned when people are gunned down in real life? What a bunch of hypocrites! Last night me, my wife and young daughter sit down to watch "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader." My daughter loves that show, and it's on from 8 to 9 p.m. But it never fails that during that show, of all things, there's usually a commercial or two aired for some horror movie or killer flick, such as "Disturbia." We always have to be on our toes in order to change the channel, or to tell our daughter to just turn away or plug her ears. It's a cause I seriously feel like doing something about.
posted by dyams at 07:36 AM on April 20, 2007
But it never fails that during that show, of all things, there's usually a commercial or two aired for some horror movie or killer flick, such as "Disturbia." We always have to be on our toes in order to change the channel, or to tell our daughter to just turn away or plug her ears. It's a cause I seriously feel like doing something about. The younger they can get them used to seeing it the sooner they believe the kids will think it is normal and ok. How else are the going to keep recruitment for the armed forces up, especially the special forces. Not that I have anything against anyone who has served or is serving. But you can't tell me it's not part of it.
posted by jojomfd1 at 07:43 AM on April 20, 2007
BornIcon, I checked to see if you had an email in your profile and you did not. So I'll say it here, sorry if my post was misunderstood. I can completely understand why alot of people would not want to have those images and feelings rehashed all the time. So if I struck a nerve I deeply apologize.
posted by jojomfd1 at 07:48 AM on April 20, 2007
I had an uncle that perished in the WTC attack so I just know that me and my family want nothing to do with any movie(s) that deals with this situation. You don't have to apologize jojomfd1 but I do appreciate it. Thank you
posted by BornIcon at 08:29 AM on April 20, 2007
BTW, I posted my email address on another post but her it is again. If anyone wants to reach me, please do so at: bornicon77@verizon.net I'll be more than happy to reply to your emails~
posted by BornIcon at 08:36 AM on April 20, 2007
Suggestion: post it in your profile and save yourself the keystrokes.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:43 AM on April 20, 2007
Thanks for the suggestion LBB but I rather just put it up when someone asks for it. It's not a hassle to me at all~
posted by BornIcon at 08:45 AM on April 20, 2007
Thank you barfbag for yet another person making another dollar off of this. Thank you crazy Virginia Tech student for giving the media some other crisis to pretend they care about and to soak up bandwidth in our 24-hour "news" cycle. Thank you bullshit Thank you faux concern Thank you heartless marketing drones Thank you Richard McBeef Thank you Alighty 'Ollar