December 07, 2006

This has got to be the most volatile word in the english language. The word just flat out scares the hell out of me! I work in a factory, so the language in this environment is pretty harsh to begin with. But if that word is spoken, I just shut the hell up and walk away. I'm white, and I just don't know how to handle it, so I shun it. Many of the friends that I have are African American, and I've known them since I hired in over twelve years ago. So it's not like I don't get my digs in with other jokes and slang words, I just don't want to risk stirring up controversy with that word. I have too much respect for all of my friends, no matter what color, to take a chance at alienating them by using such a "Sybilesque" word. This word should be stricken from the entire human culture.

posted by wingnut4life at 08:40 AM on December 07, 2006

Not to say that there aren't some great points made in this piece, but there's also another way to look at it.

posted by psmealey at 09:01 AM on December 07, 2006

there's also another way to look at it. Maybe you'd like to share some more of your feelings on the topic with us? Saying there's another way to look at it, then not expanding on that, adds nothing to the conversation.

posted by dyams at 09:07 AM on December 07, 2006

psmealy, I like your thinking.

posted by garfield at 09:33 AM on December 07, 2006

The word can't be both a slur that should never be used and then be used constantly in music or on the playground. Pretty soon, everyone listening to music and playing ball begins to think of the word nigga in a friendly sort of manner. However, there are some people who think it is never acceptable for a white person to use the word, even when not used as a slur. I think those people better take a dose of reality in how pervasive the word has become. I actually like the idea that dyams opposes that they become two totally different words. There is no way to take the history out of the word, as was illustrated with Michael Richards tirade. But, I have no problem with people taking ownership of the word that was used to degrade people.

posted by bperk at 09:47 AM on December 07, 2006

It is a word that proves that history is never all in the past. I wouldn't use it. The problem is that one section of people can use it without anything being said, whereas another section can't. In a way it is sort of like someone criticising your family. You can do it, but if anyone else does it? Well then issues are raised. Course one set of people is considerably larger than a family. I would like to agree with psmealey that the word is losing its connotations, but if anything I think the opposite is happening. That some people take too much offence whenever it is said. It is only a word, afterall. "Sticks and stones..."

posted by Fence at 09:55 AM on December 07, 2006

By the way, one of the funniest examples of a black guy using the word was the first time I ever saw Eddie Murphey(I believe) do a stand up routine. He was doing his routine and got the whole audience to scream "the word" as loud as they could. So you had a bunch of drunk white people (as that was who was in the comedy club at the time) yelling the word as loud as they could. Then after they had done that a few times he made a joke about what if some black couple walked in the bar right now :-)

posted by bdaddy at 09:58 AM on December 07, 2006

I live in Youngstown, Ohio where many of the people are black, and many of the black people that I know dont have a problem with their white friends using the term "nigga." I know that I often see younger blacks (I'm 20) using the term in normal conversation with their friends. For me though, I'm Italian, I know that some of my black friends wouldn't care if i used the term, but others would be offended. I think it just depends on how comfortable the people are with each other.

posted by the don at 10:14 AM on December 07, 2006

The issue is, individuals can't use the word (or some variation of it) in one situation and decide it's OK and acceptbable, then think they have the right to decide the next time that it's now unacceptable. Actually, that happens all the time. People make a point of not talking about politics or religion at family gatherings. Don't swear in front of clergy or your elders. Don't bring up the Kennedys in front of Republicans, and don't praise capitalism at an anarchist gathering. Language is a living, breathing, ever-evolving thing. Words change their shape all the time. "Nigger" doesn't mean the same thing it did even 20 years ago, and it'll have a different place in society in 2027 than we can possibly know right now. Is it a loaded word? Absolutely. If you're at all unsure of the difference between a word and what that word signifies in the world, then use it with extreme caution, or don't use it at all. That's fine. But understand that that's a playing field that is changing as we speak, and won't stop just because Eldridge Cleaver or Amiri Baraka or Richard Pryor or Ice Cube or Chris Rock or whoever sticks a post in the ground and says, now this is what it means. Those posts are part of a path, not a stopping point.

posted by chicobangs at 11:00 AM on December 07, 2006

i myself am a black teen from chicago and i believe that the word is relatively inoffensive when used between friends. black or white, i think that if you know the person you are talking to well enough to call them your friend, then you should probably know how they will react to such a word and you go on that. while it may be a "cop out" there is nothing fundamentally wrong with censoring yourself around some, especially when you will be found offensive, and allowing yourself to speak more freely among others. i dont think that it is reasonable to think that this word can be rooted out of modern language, mainly because is has lost much of its taboo in several circles. it also could be construed as a freedom of speach issue. for instance, you go to a baseball game and sitting behind you is someone who is using the "f word" in nearly every sentance. you may say something to this man but there is not much you can do, bringing in the authorities aside, to make this person stop. i think that it would be better to just accept the word for what it has become rather than what it was and try to promote tolerance in other ways.

posted by 15yroldkid at 11:37 AM on December 07, 2006

I could never be comfortable using the word, as a 39-year-old white guy, but I don't have a problem with younger people reclaiming an ugly slur by using it in friendship. The same thing happened with "queer," which in my childhood was one of the worst insults you could throw at someone. It still weirds me out that white guys are calling people "their niggas."

posted by rcade at 12:02 PM on December 07, 2006

Maybe send 15yroldkid's post to the lawyer of the three black men in the Michael Richard's situation, seeing as how she/they are looking to profit from his tirade. I'm all for tolerance, freedom of speech, etc. but it's never that simple. It's not a word I'd ever use (in any form) when speaking to people of any race due to it's degrading definition in the past. Why can't it be left at that? Why does the word, or any form of it, have to be tolerated at all, whether it be by blacks or whites? Just because a few decades have gone by since the horrible struggles of blacks in this country, we should now just accept that this phrase can be allowed back into common, acceptable use? I don't buy it. Go speak to some senior citizens who had to live, along with their families, in a time when they couldn't ride on public transportation, had to use separate restrooms, couldn't eat in certain restaurants or go to many schools, etc. and see if they're OK with this whole debate. I guess maybe it's just like anything else; time allows most to forget the struggles, feelings and struggles of those who came before them. And the fact that the individuals who are responsible for bringing this to the masses the most, whether it be wealthy, highly-paid, privileged entertainers, athletes, whatever, is the saddest part of the issue.

posted by dyams at 12:15 PM on December 07, 2006

I don't think people are forgetting the struggles Oh, you don't? bperk, people have an unlimited capacity to ignore the struggles of others even while they're going on. Most people simply do not care if they're not personally in the wringer. Additionally, the people who are bringing nigga to the masses are the kids using it on the street who suddenly get blessed with a record contract. If they change and stop using that language, they can say good-bye to any success they might have had. How do you figure that? Are "we" so enamored of the n-word now that we won't buy a record by anyone who doesn't use it?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:50 PM on December 07, 2006

I'm with Bill Lumbergh on this. The current politically correct bullshit is just that, bullshit. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right. People should have the right to express themselves anyway they feel like. They are only words. I once heard a comedian say he didn't do black jokes for fear of being mugged after the show. He didn't do Hispanic jokes for fear of being stabbed after the show. He didn't do Jewish jokes for fear of pissing off his accountant, lawyer and doctor. He didn't do women jokes for fear of not getting laid. But he still did gay jokes because he figured the worse that could happen was he might get a bad haircut.

posted by Atheist at 01:33 PM on December 07, 2006

It's not a word I'd ever use (in any form) when speaking to people of any race due to it's degrading definition in the past. Why can't it be left at that? It's not a word I would use in any context either, and that probably goes for most of the people on this thread. That out of the way, I don't think it's possible (or even wise) to try to banish a word from the public vernacular. I think that even attempting this does two things: 1. it gives the word more intrinsic impact or cache, therefore giving it more power in private life. 2. it has no impact whatsoever on the underlying violence/bigotry/intolerance the word embodies. I think language, left to its own devices will naturally go its own way. The less bigoted a society becomes, the less powerful will be those words used to represent it. By way of comparison, there was a time when "queer" was a word was used to cast derision and bigotry on an entire group of people.* Many decades later, the word has no such lingering meaning. In fact, quite the opposite: it's often used with pride on behalf of those that who use it to self-identify. This process has been coincident generally, with a society that is more tolerant (or at least less hateful) of gays and gay culture. Now those two things may or may not be causal, but they did seem to accompany each other. As to the "n-word", I would say leave it alone. Some people will continue to use it to convey hatred, but such people are fewer and fewer (I hope) the further away from Jim Crow we get. But if people reclaiming the word for other usages hastens the evolution of the meaning of this word, perhaps so too will the attitudes that used to accompanied fall by the wayside. * I grant you there are significant differences between the struggles of homosexuals in this country from those of African-Americans, but it seemed at least a worthy allegory.

posted by psmealey at 02:36 PM on December 07, 2006

But the poor children! They'll see the athlete use the word and they'll use the word. Oh the poor children!! Do writers ever get sick of that line? You can use the word and not be prosecuted, that's the freedom of speech. Doesn't mean you won't get your ass kicked, or, in Michael Richards' case, possibly pay some sort of restitution and likely take a severe hit to the ol' career. Let's use some common sense here. There's a big difference between two friends using the word and some one using the word directed in hate at someone he doesn't know.

posted by SummersEve at 02:58 PM on December 07, 2006

I vote we make him change his name to Douche. Let's use some common sense here. There's a big difference between two friends using the word and some one using the word directed in hate at someone he doesn't know. Ding ding. Winner. *hands Douche a poorly constructed carnival stuffed animal*

posted by jerseygirl at 03:32 PM on December 07, 2006

By way of comparison, there was a time when "queer" was a word was used to cast derision and bigotry on an entire group of people.* Many decades later, the word has no such lingering meaning. In fact, quite the opposite: it's often used with pride on behalf of those that who use it to self-identify. This process has been coincident generally, with a society that is more tolerant (or at least less hateful) of gays and gay culture. Now those two things may or may not be causal, but they did seem to accompany each other. Wrong on several counts, most obviously on the "many decades" and the "no such lingering meaning", but also -- and most relevant to this argument -- on the ways in which the reclamation of the word "queer" came about. There are more differences than similarities, I'm afraid.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:50 PM on December 07, 2006

I think Howard Stern had it right. he used to regularly have a KKK er named Daniel Carver on his show. Carver use to spew his KKK philosiphy with every conceivable racial slur known to man. The irony was the more he talked the more he seemed like an ignorant ass. I think intelligent people can tell when a word is used in a hateful fashion. I certainly believe there is a proper place for almost any language. Those who are intelligent enough know when and where it is OK to use certain language and when it is not appropriate. Those who are not do what Michael Richards, Mel Gibson and others have done and basically use words to destroy themselves or expose themselves to others for what they really are. So in the case of someone like Richards, is it better to have censored him immediately, or allow him to expose himself. I for one prefer knowing.

posted by Atheist at 03:56 PM on December 07, 2006

Well said MRAY74. I agree.

posted by Atheist at 03:59 PM on December 07, 2006

Because, The original Crackers(food) were White.

posted by MRAY74 at 04:07 PM on December 07, 2006

Damn America, First they cancel PLUTO, NOW they trying to change the dictionary

posted by MRAY74 at 04:09 PM on December 07, 2006

What the hell you mean? I don't understand what you are sayin.Just because I decide to call my partna out of his name, does that make this a bad word? Or how about me calling you Bitch? That word is in POP Culture to the extreme. But it is calling someone out of their name.

posted by MRAY74 at 04:12 PM on December 07, 2006

Yeah, but I'm not your partna.

posted by jerseygirl at 04:19 PM on December 07, 2006

Those posts are part of a path, not a stopping point. Well put, chico...

posted by smithers at 04:24 PM on December 07, 2006

Because, The original Crackers(food) were White. Man, that's messed up. That must be when we invented the Ritz.

posted by smithnyiu at 04:36 PM on December 07, 2006

Seriously, MRAY74. Read those guidelines. They're how this site rolls. Now, at the risk of muddying the waters further, Paul Lukas at UniWatch brings us this team photo postcard from around 90 years ago.

posted by chicobangs at 05:03 PM on December 07, 2006

The same thing happened with "queer," I wouldn't quite say it's ok to be called "queer" or "a queer". Why am I called Craka, by the way? I actually learned in my African American history class that "crackers" were actually the people who would whip the slaves (some were black), a lot of them were poor white people who worked for the plantation owner. I guess it's meant to cause shame, but since I have never enjoyed the benefits of owning a slave, I can't accept the shame that would go with it. My family arrived here from Germany in the 1890's and were treated pretty poorly themselves.

posted by yay-yo at 05:05 PM on December 07, 2006

I enjoy crackers. Crisp, airy, delicious with cheese or any of a bevy of toppings, really. You can dress them up or down and it's all good. Whats not to love.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:58 PM on December 07, 2006

You let your kids use it?

posted by jerseygirl at 06:02 PM on December 07, 2006

In colonial times the word "rascal" was the unspeakable insult that raised this kind of emtion. I bet many folks do not know what a scalawag really was.

posted by mjkredliner at 06:41 PM on December 07, 2006

Just stop. Are you sane? Do you think it is okay? Use your Flippin head. Appropriate situation? Not appropriate? Next question. Let's move on to a question that merits SpoFi brainpower.

posted by hawkguy at 07:38 PM on December 07, 2006

but to try to tell someone else when they should or shouldn't be insulted is just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as trying to tell people what they can and can't say.

posted by yay-yo at 10:11 PM on December 07, 2006

I actually learned in my African American history class that "crackers" were actually the people who would whip the slaves Ask for a refund.

posted by yerfatma at 07:08 AM on December 08, 2006

We are not at liberty to dismiss the injustices of the past until we've set them right, and to use a word that is deeply connected with those injustices and claim it's nothing but a term of friendship is a reprensible act. Agreed on the injustices part - but words are contextually bound. Using the word as a term of friendship isn't a "claim". You cannot ascribe context in the abstract, any more than you can ascribe offense to a party that hasn't taken any.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:45 AM on December 08, 2006

Ask for a refund. That bastard had me fooled. He had a Masters from Cornell... However, I wouldn't trust everything you read on the internet. This dude had studied Afro history for 20+ years. I think he might know more on the topic than Wikipedia. Do some better research.+ Pay for godsakes attention and read what other people are saying if you're gonna participate in these threads. "Do as I say, not as I do..." If you read the above discussion you will find out exactly what I am talking about. Now back to your dungeon gimp.

posted by yay-yo at 09:20 AM on December 08, 2006

Clarence Major, in his Dictionary of Afro-American Slang, lists two rather interesting ideas about the origin of the term. The first is that a "cracker" was a slang term used by 19th Century Georgian slaves to refer to the slavemasters. If this were in fact, true, then the term would come directly from the cracking of the slavemaster's whip. This is quite a peculiar theory, because it would immediately explain the negative connotation that the word has taken. However, there seems to be little or no support for this theory, and no other source that was studied mentions it. Etymology of the word cracker.

posted by bperk at 10:33 AM on December 08, 2006

This dude had studied Afro history for 20+ years. I think he might know more on the topic than Wikipedia. Hopefully he passed out some citations with those class notes. Because the Wikipedia entry has 'em, and they're convincing. Would love to see yours in rebuttal; this question is rather interesting.

posted by Venicemenace at 10:58 AM on December 08, 2006

MrFrisby's on to something, Cracker came from Camper Van Beethoven. Case closed. If you follow yerfatma's wikipedia link and click on Etymology of "cracker" by Professor Kim Pearson and scroll about half way down you'll see this: 1842 BUCKINGHAM, The Slave States of American (London, 1842, p.210) They are called by the twos people "Crackers," from the frequency with which they crack their large whips, as if they derived a peculiar pleasure from the sound. (OED) From bperk's link: Of its peculiar dual nature, Irving Allen writes, "'Cracker' is a positive or at least a humorous self-label for many Georgians. But in and beyond Georgia it was and remains a class epithet, and is more recently a black term for any white, Southerner or Northerner, who is thought to be a racist" So southern whites took a derogatory term and turned into a self-label. And some folks have done that in current times with another derogatory term. I'm no psychologist, but could there be something there? You insult me, I'll turn your insult around by using as a sort of term of endearment?

posted by SummersEve at 12:32 PM on December 08, 2006

I'm no psychologist, but could there be something there? Nope. Move along. No poignant observations here.

posted by garfield at 03:32 PM on December 08, 2006

Check this out! This site has an example of many different roots of the word "Craker". It also has the etymology of the word "Nigger". (and some other interesting words of hate)

posted by yay-yo at 04:15 PM on December 08, 2006