October 11, 2006

WFAN is reporting the same thing.

posted by NoMich at 03:59 PM on October 11, 2006

been watching WABC 7 in NY for the past 2 hrs....they confirmed it was registered to him, 20 minutes ltr confirmed he was the pilot....

posted by toradio at 04:10 PM on October 11, 2006

This is a sad event for Lidle's family, and the Yankee's. However, being a firefighter I can't help but to find at least something humorous in this. Did he attend the Thurman Munson flight school? Sorry if I offended anyone.

posted by jojomfd1 at 04:17 PM on October 11, 2006

I read it was his passport. Regardless of what evidence it was, it is tragic news. The espn article that jerseygirl linked to has a list of aircrashes involving athletes.

posted by apoch at 04:17 PM on October 11, 2006

did I hear on the radio that the plane had been seen doing stunts or tricks prior to the crash? i mean, lots of misinformation in the early stages of any news event but if that was true....

posted by gspm at 04:28 PM on October 11, 2006

They think that one of his engines went out and caused him to lose control doing flips that people maybe mistook as being tricks or stunts. Most people are saying it was not a trick or a stunt that caused this.

posted by amatzek at 04:31 PM on October 11, 2006

I can see that. What might look like a trick from the ground might be something altogether different in the air. Sad all around.

posted by gspm at 04:37 PM on October 11, 2006

Lidle was a pretty decent pitcher who threw one inning last Saturday. Condolences to Lidle's family, friends and fans.

posted by Joey Michaels at 04:41 PM on October 11, 2006

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the absolute bizarre randomness of this. Condolences to his family and the Yankee fans here on SpoFi.

posted by jerseygirl at 04:42 PM on October 11, 2006

There are a lot of conflicting reports, amatzek. Which, at this point, is pretty normal as far as reporting goes. CNN just said it was a pilot and an instructor and no one inside the building perished.

posted by jerseygirl at 04:44 PM on October 11, 2006

What a major bummer. I am sorry to hear it. Deepest condolences to Lidle's family.

posted by fenriq at 04:47 PM on October 11, 2006

I got the report of the plane crash before any info about the plane was known, and immediately considered terrorism. Finding out it wasn't a terrorist, but somebody I actually know of has made this unbelievably surreal. I haven't seen any confirmation regarding passenger(s) on the plane -- I certainly hope his wife wasn't with him. My condolences to everyone touched by this, including the victims on the ground. Jojomfd, I think it's gonna be a hard sell that a firefighter from Ohio is so stressed out by the crash of a small plane in New York that you have no recourse but rushing to post tasteless humor. You knew when you clicked it that you were going to offend people -- you even apologized for it in advance -- which pretty much precludes your making a reasonable defense at this point. I recommend shutting the hell up for a while, and definitely staying away from this thread.

posted by BullpenPro at 04:58 PM on October 11, 2006

thanks rcade. and bpp.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:02 PM on October 11, 2006

WABC tv and Teterboro Airport officials confirm 2 persons onboard, Lidle and an instructor.

posted by toradio at 05:09 PM on October 11, 2006

Tommy do you even have anything to say about the story, or just my comment? My most heartfelt sympathies to the families of all the victims. Is that enough for me to say about the story? Well said, bpp.

posted by tommybiden at 05:38 PM on October 11, 2006

Lighten up on jojo. There are worse things in the world than people dealing with tragedy through humor. You're right, Texan. There are worse things. A lot worse. But when somebody offends me, I think it's within reasonable boundaries to react with something stronger than, "Well, at least he didn't try to stab me." It's one thing to make an off-hand verbal comment in the wake of news like this. In this case, the person took the time to write it out AND had the presence of mind to realize that it might come across as offensive (which would be, for me, the first indication that it's a bad idea). I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not going to hold this over jojo's head for any extended period of time. It will be easier for me to forget, though, if he doesn't try to repeatedly defend the comment here. Like the FPP says, the Munson thing still stings for some of us, and this news is just stunning. For crying out loud, the jab came 24 minutes after the story posted. I think the cheap shots can hold off a day or two.

posted by BullpenPro at 06:16 PM on October 11, 2006

.

posted by wingnut4life at 06:29 PM on October 11, 2006

Lidle left his wife and six year old son behind. Even when everyone else knew he was dead, they didn't. They were on a flight to Los Angeles. That's brutal. If you find humor in that, I'm not going to stand in your way, but I won't stand in the way of people calling you and ass for finding humor in it either. .

posted by Ufez Jones at 06:54 PM on October 11, 2006

The Phillies did a little featurey thing on all the players, and Lidle's of course was his flying. They sent a camera up with him and you could see in his eyes how much he loved it. He always talked about it, and even cut back on how much golf he played so he could fly more. Sad stuff, and -- pardon the cliche -- but he went doing what he loved. We could all be so lucky.

posted by SummersEve at 06:55 PM on October 11, 2006

Ufez, you're the man. I just read through this thread, (it is first thing in the morning here), and you perfectly summed up what I wanted to add. What a horrible tragedy and my heart goes out to those affected. Not the kind of sports news you want to find when scanning the morning headlines. .

posted by geekyguy at 07:07 PM on October 11, 2006

I had heard about the crash about midday here in the west coast, but I didnt know who was in the plane. I later learned that the pilot was Cory Lidle. This is a tragedy, and being a YANKEES fan it feels even more terrible. He left behind his wife Melanie and his 6 year old son Christopher. My heart goes out to all of the people that were affected by this tragedy.

posted by STUNNER at 07:28 PM on October 11, 2006

Does anyone know if cellular communication is a problem within a 3 mile radius of the crash site? It's not a problem. I called a family member who lives on E. 72nd st. on his cell (He was home at the time) and got through OK.

posted by cjets at 07:59 PM on October 11, 2006

Now I'm wondering what if the Yankees would have made it past the Tigers? i've heard that a few times today. it made me think of another "what if the yankees won" scenerio from the 2001 world series. if the yankees had won game 7, enrique wilson was scheduled to fly home to the dominican republic on american airlines flight 587, which crashed into a neighborhood in queens killing everyone on board. since they lost, and he didn't have to be in new york for a parade, he caught an earlier flight home. mariano rivera has said that he was glad they lost game if it meant that his friend was still alive.

posted by goddam at 08:23 PM on October 11, 2006

Thank you, cjets.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:40 PM on October 11, 2006

Wierd. I had not thought of Thurman in no telling how long, and his name just suddenly popped into my head for this yesterday.

posted by mjkredliner at 08:57 PM on October 11, 2006

interviewed by the times, said that he can pull the safety parachute if engine fails, which is rare this is terrible

posted by lucky23pjq at 09:18 PM on October 11, 2006

I cried and I dont know the guy.

posted by sirtt22 at 10:39 PM on October 11, 2006

The SpoFi sanctimony meter is going off the scale Cap'n. My condolences to the family of course.

posted by squealy at 03:30 AM on October 12, 2006

When I heard a plane hit a highrise in NY, I thought, "here we go again". May Lidle rip

posted by texasred at 06:03 AM on October 12, 2006

5.5 hrs and 17 comments since anyone had referenced Jojo negatively

posted by louisville_slugger at 07:44 AM on October 12, 2006

Here's my nomination for Most Stupidest Day-After Column, by Dan Shaughnessey (whose work nowadays rarely fails to inspire me to scream, "Stop pontificating about what 'we thought'! We're not all as stupid as you!").

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:03 AM on October 12, 2006

Thanks for nothing, lbb "For those of us over 35, it was impossible to see and hear all this without thinking of Thurman Munson, who was the heart of the defending champion Yankees when he crashed his plane during an offday in August 1979." Reworked: "For those of us whose work depends on recycling old stories and comparing everything to the mythical Good Old Days, it was impossible to not start thinking about putting out a Curse of The Tugboat and suggesting this was an offering to appease the playoff Gods."

posted by yerfatma at 08:32 AM on October 12, 2006

Rcade, thanks for the exceedingly creepy way to look at this tragedy. I'm wondering what the other pilot flying directly at Lidle's plane just 100-200 feet above him saw.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:55 AM on October 12, 2006

Thanks for nothing, lbb I do confess it, this is a picking-at-a-scab behavior for me. Maybe if I keep that metaphor in my mind, I'll be able to stop forcing Spofi to watch me pick this scab. He is the Mike Barnicle of sports reporting, though, isn't he?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:37 AM on October 12, 2006

They located his log book too. Maybe they can determine how many hours he had. Last I heard they weren't sure if the instructor pilot or Lidle was on the stick. All they know the plane was flying along the river (legally) and the plane made an ubrupt turn. So sad for his family and so brave for the firefighters.

posted by Psycho at 09:43 AM on October 12, 2006

99% of all General Aviation accidents are eventually classified as "pilot error". The NTSB analysis of this crash will no doubt come to the same conclusion. Having an engine or structural failure is bad, but having it at 300 feet above the East River while bounded by buildings on both sides is poor planning. Cory Lidle or not, there is NO forgiveness in aircraft crashes. Good pilots never put themselves in a position where an engine or structural failure is non-recoverable. There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold, pilots.

posted by Sanman at 10:01 AM on October 12, 2006

The Cirrus SR-22 is a "cutting edge aircraft" and as such many insurance companies require Cirrus pilots to undergo annual recurrent training in addition to Cirrus transition training before they can fly as pilot in command. Also, spin recovery techniques are totally unlike those of other aircraft. I am no expert, but I contend the Cirrus SR22 has safety issues. Various reviews by myself of NTSB and other data of the SR-22 includes phrases such as " Cirrus has been plagued with a significant number of fatal accidents (31 deaths including a Cirrus Design Test Pilot)" and " there have been several catastrophic engine failures in the Cirrus" Here is a pretty easy to read article. I smell litigation.

posted by mjkredliner at 10:47 AM on October 12, 2006

He could have been in the safest aircraft in the world, but he still would have been at 300 feet above the East River in between buildings. That's not a position an inexperienced pilot should find himself in. The Cirrus accident rate is indicative of the people who buy it, not the inherent safety of the aircraft. Robinson goes through the same issues every year (with their training helicopters) when numerous student pilots experience a ground interrupt due to inexperience and lack of judgement. Don't blame the airplane for lack of judgement and over-confidence.

posted by Sanman at 11:07 AM on October 12, 2006

Cut the "he died doing what he loved" crap. He died because his plane crashed into a building - unless he was a secret Islamic extremist, he didn't love anything about doing that.

posted by JJ at 11:14 AM on October 12, 2006

Yeah, I'm totally sure Kevin wants to sit through the break, Larry. Jesus Christ, he's not grieving or anything! I would agree, except his choosing to go on larry king so soon after the accident is a little strange in the first place.

posted by justgary at 11:16 AM on October 12, 2006

The point being that a failure of the aircraft would render null and void "lack of judgement and over-confidence". Not that either scenario has been ruled out.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:24 AM on October 12, 2006

I would agree, except his choosing to go on larry king so soon after the accident is a little strange in the first place. I can actually understand that, Gary. If you wanted to spread the word about your brother and tell the world what a great guy he was and how he'll be missed, I get it -- especially if Larry King called him and asked him to be on the show. The fact that King called him in what have been the six hours after his brother died is bad enough, but then to even suggest, "Hey, you've got nothing better to do! Hang around while we pay the bills!" That was tacky.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:25 AM on October 12, 2006

Sanman, many new and inexperienced pilots do buy the Cirrus, your point is taken. I am suggesting that the plane got them into a situation few pilots could get out of. Data about the Cirrus spin characteristics suggest that normal spin recovery techniques are useless in the SR22, and that it has other stall and spin issues. We shall see, as you say, and you may very well be right.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:40 AM on October 12, 2006

...no instructor worth his weight in salt would advocate being at 300 feet above the East River in between Teterboro, La Guardia, and JFK airspace and 50 story buildings. Those conditions are only acceptable when you're avoiding SAM's or dropping bombs, and when the government is paying you to do it. Spin characteristics of the Cirrus notwithstanding, at 300 feet crap comes at you so fast you won't even know you're spinning until it's non-recoverable. In the panic (ground to your left, sky to your right, world spinning around like a merry-go-round) even experienced pilots tend to grab the stick and pull...thus tightening the spin and insuring impact. Tragic for both the instructor and Lidle, but if either had lived they would have had their license pulled.

posted by Sanman at 11:58 AM on October 12, 2006

Your points are all good ones, Sanman, but, are you quite sure the plane was at 300 feet when they first experienced trouble?

posted by mjkredliner at 12:10 PM on October 12, 2006

Not sure, but they were never above 800 feet and decended rapidly after crossing the top of the bridge. That decent could have been part of the stall induced spin...we'll find out when the NTSB writes it up. Second-guessing...sure, maybe. If the instructor was flying the aircraft this mistake just got magnified by a factor of 10. The 26 year old should have known better...and if he was flying, 2 people are dead because of his incompetence.

posted by Sanman at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2006

Do any of you folks who are citing inexperience as a factor have certain information that Lidle was flying the plane? Pages of second-guessing are being written here. Listening to Dale and Holley on 'EEI just now, Lidle had 40-some hours of stick-time (80-some hours in the air) and the instructor was 26 years old. 'EEI had a good caller for once who seemed knowledgeable on the subject without trying to show off; he suggested an instructor who was unfamiliar with the type of plane would be pretty close to having no instructor at all. He also seconded what Sanman said about the planes being extremely popular and that perhaps being the cause of the high number of accidents (noting of course we are only seeing a raw figure in this thread and not a rate of accidents/hours flown per plane type).

posted by yerfatma at 12:30 PM on October 12, 2006

In the continuing search for facts it should be noted the plane was an SR20, not SR22. There seem to be some differences and I'm hoping Sanman can shed some light. Is the SR20 more troublesome in conditions like those yesterday in NYC?

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 12:45 PM on October 12, 2006

The SR20 is actually a lower performing aircraft than the SR22. It can fly slower, it stalls at a lower speed, and is the most appropriate Cirrus aircraft for an entry-level pilot. That said, even the SR20 isn't a "beginner" aircraft...

posted by Sanman at 12:56 PM on October 12, 2006

The parachute is an emergency device that Cirrus provides on many of their aircraft. Assuming a mechanical failure of airframe or engine, the pilot can deploy this emergency device and it will (generally) safely deliver the aircraft and occupants to the ground. There are many assumptions, however: 1) that there is enough air under you to deploy the parachute and arrest the decent 2) that the airspeed of the aircraft is slow enough to safely deploy the parachute 3) that the attitude of the aircraft is such that a deployment won't end up in a highly tangled mass of kevlar In this instance, items #1 and #3 would have prevented the parachute from rendering any assistance at all. It's a safety device meant for deployment at significant altitude (>1000 feet) when a mechanical failure prevents flying the aircraft to the ground. My 2 cents.

posted by Sanman at 01:28 PM on October 12, 2006

You're right JJ, I'd much rather die in a bed than doing something I like. How silly of me. Well, while we're being sarcastic, I know that every time I'm going out to do something I like, I say to myself, "Wow, I really hope I die today, because it would really suck if I died in bed!" Okay, end pointless sarcasm. Nobody wants to die doing what they love, SummersEve, except for the rare case of people who just want to die, period. For the rest, they want to live doing what they love. It's just that we're all gonna die sometime, and if you do what you love a lot, you up the odds that that's what you'll be doing when you die. It does not make the death any more welcome, and it does not mitigate it, really, which is what the "at least" phrasing implies. I've been present at the death of someone who "died doing what he loved"; I was the one who had to tell the tale afterwards. And, yes, that phrase came out of the woodwork. I recognize that it's well-intentioned, but I really disliked hearing it, and it was not my observation that it offered any comfort to any of the deceased's loved ones. I may be an anomaly in that reaction, but OTOH I've heard much the same reaction from others who've been there.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:10 PM on October 12, 2006

Nothing like tragedy to bring out the best in all of us. Count mine as one vote to just retire this thread now.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:23 PM on October 12, 2006

This was a truely horrific event, but don't you think that people are making a big deal about the situation? Its very sad to see anyone die, especially the way Lidle did. But on the other hand, death is something that we all have to deal with at some point. What happened to Cory could have happened to anyone- and if it did, would people make such a big deal about it? I truely feel for his family, and his child, but some people are just making this a bigger issue than it is. Maybe I seem insensitive, but that's just the way I feel. I am expecting that ill offend at least one person, but I really didn't attend to do so. Anywho, best wishes to Lidles family and friends.

posted by Kendall at 06:02 PM on October 12, 2006

don't you think that people are making a big deal about the situation? from a tragic accident angle, probably. but, there are other levels to this story. it's not every day that a plane flies into a skyscraper in new york. while the sports media outlets are centering on lidle, the non-sports news is starting to cover the implications of this accident. how did it happen? should there be more restrictions on small aircraft around the city? stuff like that. which i think would be covered whether this involved an athlete or not.

posted by goddam at 08:32 PM on October 12, 2006

The photos on CNN (Photo Gallery link at left) make it look as if they hit the far side of the building -- in other words, they were heading up the river, tried to U turn and slammed into it after completing the turn.

posted by rcade at 08:40 AM on October 13, 2006

Oh, and before you go ballistic on me about the difference between military and civilian pilots, take a look at someone a lot of people think is a "good" pilot. My point is, even a good pilot can find themselves in an un-recoverable situation that just went beyond their control.

posted by irunfromclones at 12:47 PM on October 13, 2006

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-yankees-planecrash-investigation&prov=ap&type=lgns From the article: Aviation experts said Friday that inexperience, the tight airspace over the city, mechanical failure, hazy weather or a gust of wind through New York's concrete canyons could explain why Cory Lidle's plane failed to execute a U-turn and slammed into the side of a high-rise. According to radar data, the single-engine plane appeared to be making a difficult but commonly performed left turn over a 710-yard-wide section of the river between Manhattan and Queens when it crashed Wednesday, killing the New York Yankee pitcher and his flight instructor. ...Much is still unknown about the crash. Investigators said they have not determined who was at the controls. I know a number of people who have died doing things that wouldn't have resulted in a fatality if they'd done something different. I can't think of a single one of those cases where the cause was blatant stupidity or negligence, or (often) something that could have been foreseen. Chewing over the cause of an accident on the basis of data is the province of organizations like the NTSB; chewing over the cause of an accident in the absence of data is like sitting behind someone at a football game and beating a cowbell nonstop.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:23 PM on October 14, 2006

Such speculation is only human nature, we all know that the experts will do their job, anyone not thinking this thread would contain it is indulging in wishful thinking.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2006