11/21/24
July 31, 2006
The Dodgers trade Izturis, Guzman, Pedroza for Maddux and Lugo.:
Jon Weisman over at Dodgerthoughts gives us the lowdown.
They made some shrewd moves the Dodgers did. Now lets see if they pay off come September.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 05:33 PM on July 31, 2006
It's a good trade but might be too late to make a difference, we'll see. Hadn't really been following the Dodgers much lately other than SportsCenter, I was shocked at all the empty seats at Dodger Stadium over the weekend. Even when they're not playing well they usually draw a decent crowd. What's going on with Soriano not being moved....is Washington insane?? He's a free agent at the end of the season, they're in last place, and the GM says not trading him is for the good of the franchise? Do they actually think they're going to re-sign him? Stupid.......I was hoping he was coming to the Angels.
posted by eccsport78 at 05:57 PM on July 31, 2006
Never mind......I just read that Soriano told Bowden he didn't want to be traded and wanted to stay in DC. I guess it only makes sense if they are pretty sure he's staying.
posted by eccsport78 at 06:02 PM on July 31, 2006
trade away there best guys and get okay prospects for them Dude, it's Julio Lugo, an offensively decent SS whose offensiveness extends to his defense. And his marital relations. Also: he's old.
posted by yerfatma at 06:19 PM on July 31, 2006
From a cub fans perspective, it's a good trade. As sad as I am to see Maddox leave ,he deserves a chance to make the plaoffs and be closer to his Las Vagas home. As far as geting Izturis in return ,he's a good defensive SS and can bat near the top of the order. Ronny Cedeno should move to 2nd base and give the infield significantly more range.
posted by Cubfan276 at 06:40 PM on July 31, 2006
Maddox isn't the Cubs problem --so I wish him the best---he did not stop it so I think he sees the Cubs sink again---now get the management out and Cubs can get going for next year---LOL--always next year----and again--why should they worry (remember I am a fan) when they draw 3mill. fools to the park
posted by jim222 at 07:19 PM on July 31, 2006
A year ago, Paul Stupidesta (or as they referred to him on the Spanish call-in shows, Paulo DiPendejo) was running the Dodge into the ground. Now, with a combination of ex-Red Sox and these shrewd trades, Ned Colletti appears to be putting LA back in a position to win some games...
posted by Venicemenace at 07:28 PM on July 31, 2006
Hey kidrayter, keep in mind that Lugo is getting older, and BJ Upton is a great prospect with speed- who will probably be called up now that Lugos out of the way.
posted by redsoxrgay at 07:47 PM on July 31, 2006
Maddux, goddamnit -- MADDUX!!! With a U! Nice trade for the Cubs, although it appears the Dodgers have decided Guzman won't pan out. Might as well give him a shot, though -- Greg's not taking them anywhere this season anyhow.
posted by wfrazerjr at 07:51 PM on July 31, 2006
Those poor unsuspecting LA escorts and bouncers. They'll never see it coming.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:37 PM on July 31, 2006
Paul Stupidesta ... was running the Dodge into the ground. Really? Kevin Malone ran the Dodgers into the ground, emptied the farm system, and presided over some of the worst contracts in club history (Ashby, Brown, Dreifort anyone?). Dan Evans and Paul DePodesta played a large part in replenishing a severely depleted farm system (thank god for Logan White) while trying to be competitive. DePodesta takes a lot of crap for 2005, but how do you take credit away from him for helping win the NL West in 2004? How can any Dodger fan do that with out leveling some criticism on Jim Tracy? If you dislike statistical analysis, thats one thing, but to resort to (dare I say) Plaschke-isms is beneath any human being. With that said, at least DePodesta had a plan. Coletti has now dealt for 1/5 of the D-Rays roster. Getting Maddux for Izturis bolsters the Dodgers starting pitching, removes a bango-hitting glovesman from the line-up, and clears up a severe middle infield pile-up while saving $4.5 Mill for next year. In light of that, trading Guzman (who's been moved to the outfield) and Pedroza (who was rumored to be moved to catcher) for Lugo (who will likely be a 2-month rental) on the off chance that Kent or Nomar stay on the DL makes no sense, even if you DFA Ramon Martinez (not likely).
posted by lilnemo at 09:02 PM on July 31, 2006
Hey, I didn't say he was the best in the league but he is the best shortstop the Rays have had. Oh and he is only 30. Also, Upton is one of the worst fielders in the middle since Soriano moved to left.
posted by kidrayter2005 at 09:36 PM on July 31, 2006
Those poor unsuspecting LA escorts and bouncers. They'll never see it coming. I heard that Collateral was based on a little job Maddux did in L.A. some years ago. I have a feeling that the Long Beach dockyards drug wars are about to get a lot more interesting. Welcome back to the city of angels, Mad Dog.
posted by holden at 10:30 PM on July 31, 2006
I think it's quite evident from the way he's run the Dodgers that Colletti was tutored under Brian Sabean (who was responsible for A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof Bonser) -- basically, trade prospects for proven veterans if it will help win now. Reading that post at Dodger Thoughts, it's pretty amazing the prospects/minor league talent that the Dodgers have parted with this year. It's even more amazing (and a testament to the strength of the Dodgers system) that the Dodgers still have all of the young (under 30) talent identified in this post.
posted by holden at 10:40 PM on July 31, 2006
lilnemo, while deferring to your expertise on the matter, I will say that I still think DePodesta did a terrible job. His 2004 moves included dispensing with the legendary Dave Roberts and erstwhile team leader Paul LoDuca - and the pitching staff didn't seem nearly as effective after LoDuca was shipped out. And while Beltre's struggles in Seattle certainly seem to vindicate the Dodgers' decision not to resign him, I can't help but think he would have continued to prosper if they had gone the extra mile (it was more like a few hundred yards) - and he was a huge part of the 2004 success. Instead, DiPodesta brought in character guys like Jeff Kent and D-Lowe; was it any surprise that the clubhouse melted down? Tracy probably needed to go, and Colletti is hardly a proven winner yet. and DiPo did raise some talent down on the farm. But it's the Dodgers. Isn't a fully stocked farm system kind of the default? Incidentally, I have no problem with statistical analysis. I just didn't like DiPodesta. Also, I was getting most of my sports news at the time from Vic the Brick (kidding, kind of). Therefore, take my comments with a grain of salt or several.
posted by Venicemenace at 12:35 AM on August 01, 2006
Also, Upton is one of the worst fielders in the middle since Soriano moved to left. He's played 16 major league games in short. Impressive projection based on that huge sample size. Or were you basing that on having seen him boot a ground ball a couple of times?
posted by yerfatma at 06:15 AM on August 01, 2006
No, I am basing it on his production in the Minors. If he can't field a minor league ground ball then what makes you think he he can handle a major league ground ball?
posted by kidrayter2005 at 07:51 AM on August 01, 2006
Those poor unsuspecting LA escorts and bouncers. They'll never see it coming. Governor Schwarzenegger just called an emergency cabinet meeting on how to deal with the new Maddux Menace. The National Guard is said to be mobilizing. Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, on his way to the L.A. County Executive Bomb Shelter, warned Angelinos that "bad times are upon us." The Mayor continued, "This will be a bloodbath the likes we haven't seen since the early eighties wars between the Bloods and Crips." The Mayor then genuflected before L.A. County Sheriff's Deputies bundled him into the shelter and activated the airlock.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:20 AM on August 01, 2006
Can you provide a link describing that production? Given the general crapiness of fielding stats and minor league infields, I apologize if I'm a bit skeptical.
posted by yerfatma at 08:23 AM on August 01, 2006
I was hoping Maddux's stint in maximum security would have rehabilitated him, but it doesn't appear that way. I hear he can hide chivs in some mysterious places.
posted by willthrill72 at 08:28 AM on August 01, 2006
Can you provide a link describing that production? Given the general crapiness of fielding stats and minor league infields, I apologize if I'm a bit skeptical. According to the Baseball Prospectus PECOTA player card for Upton (subscriber access only), Upton was at -14 Fielding Runs Above Average in Triple A last year (I couldn't find current year stats anywhere). As I understand it, Fielding Runs Above Average is basically a statistic that shows how many runs over the course of a season a player would save for his team (positive FRAA) or give up (negative FRAA) based on his glove, with zero being league average. Upton is projected (by BPro's magic projector machine) to be no higher than -7 FRAA in the majors through 2010. By contrast, Soriano was at -8 FRAA at 2B for Texas in 2004 and -21 FRAA at 2B for Texas in 2005. Orlando Hudson, who won the gold glove at second last year came out at +16 FRAA last year (and was at +28 in 2003).
posted by holden at 09:43 AM on August 01, 2006
Fucking A. That ain't so good at all. I'd still rather pay for him than Lugo if I were the D-Rays. Or Rays. Or whichever.
posted by yerfatma at 10:09 AM on August 01, 2006
Yeah, Julio Lugo was the biggest albatross this year. How did that guy suddenly get so popular? He makes Jeter look like Vizquel. And he's 31... We think. Is there anything more overrated than a slugging, no-defense shortstop?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:36 AM on August 01, 2006
Is there anything more overrated than a slugging, no-defense shortstop? A no-hitting, all-defence shortstop.
posted by grum@work at 11:10 AM on August 01, 2006
I appreciate what Greg Maddux has done for baseball and will miss him here in Chicago. He didn't want to leave but realizes that is what happens sometimes. He had never been traded mid-season before so it will be interesting to see how it goes for him. While his greatest days are behind him, I do believe that this will benefit the Dogders quite a bit. I look forward to Maddux making his return to Wrigley next month with L.A. and hope to be there when that happens. Just because he is there in L.A. now, doesn't mean he won't be back in the Cub pinstripes when next spring arrives. He said he wanted to finish here and I can't see the Dogders holding on to him past this season. If he is done here in Chicago for good, I can only say thank you for doing all you did. I rooted for him when he was with the Braves {and I can't stand the Braves} so I will cheer when he takes the mound over on the west coast. Good luck to you.
posted by melcarek69 at 11:28 AM on August 01, 2006
Los Angeles is a dirty town. Greg Maddux is coming to clean it up. One hobo at a time.
posted by chicobangs at 11:28 AM on August 01, 2006
Wait a minute. Are you saying that you would rather someone who has lets say a .320 average but who can't throw, catch or anything else for that matter at one of the most active positions in baseball!? This is to you grum.
posted by kidrayter2005 at 11:54 PM on August 01, 2006
No, he's saying a guy who only provides defense is less valuable to the cause of winning baseball games than one who provides only offense, regardless of position (other than pitcher).
posted by yerfatma at 06:07 AM on August 02, 2006
I'd also say that the difference between a poor fielding shortstop and a great fielding shortstop is less than the difference between a poor hitting shortstop and a great hitting shortstop (in terms of value to a team). A team would be better off with a .850 OPS, C+ fielding shortstop than a .650 OPS, A+ fielding shortstop. This is why I bristled at people when they accused me of thinking that Jeter should have been moved from SS (before ARod's arrival) because I said he was a poor fielding shortstop. The fact that he can field the position at a major league level and hit like he does is the reason the Yankees shouldn't have moved him.
posted by grum@work at 08:59 AM on August 02, 2006
Oh, okay. I understand.
posted by kidrayter2005 at 01:01 PM on August 02, 2006
Here's a pretty decent exploration of the great fielding vs. great hitting issue (comparing Jeter and Vizquel) from King Kaufman of Salon.
posted by holden at 01:02 PM on August 02, 2006
Very interesting link. Thanks holden.
posted by kidrayter2005 at 07:28 PM on August 02, 2006
I was kinda hoping that Maddux would end his career in the city he started in but that isn't going to happen. Also, why do the Devil Rays always seem to trade away there best guys and get okay prospects for them? Any time someone starts to develop in there system they ship them out so they can start all over again with another prospect. They have finally started keeping some good players for themselves in Crawford, Cantu, and Baldelli but now they ship out a major team contributor for some prospects! It gets annoying when the hometown team gets rid of the players that are starting to get popular around here.