11/05/24
April 24, 2006
What a schmo.
posted by GoBirds at 08:41 PM on April 24, 2006
If the Padres gave her permission to be in the dugout, why should anyone but the Padres give a rat's ass who's in the dugout? If Keith wants to bring his Paleozoic attitude based on a previous baseball era to the broadcasting booth, he better get his facts straight on whether somebody has a right to be in the dugout before he shoots off his mouth. And Keith, if you think a woman in the dugout would hinder you from scratching your balls, spitting, or cracking an obscene joke to the guys, or, heaven forbid, might even sue you for such behavior, just remember that in this era, millions of TV viewers see players spit and scratch themselves on national television and don't give a damn about it. So move into this century Keith, and leave your antiquated opinions on the cutting room floor.
posted by roberts at 08:41 PM on April 24, 2006
You would think that after all these years, these guys in the booth would learn to keep their comments confined to the game and the players. It never ceases to amaze me, that someone will still manage to say something this stupid during a televised game. It must have something to do with their egos being so great that they think no one will question them. Hernandez was obviously never a "brain trust" - which is witnessed by the crossword puzzle incident. Whitey called this one a long time ago!
posted by StLCardsFan at 09:17 PM on April 24, 2006
I applaud Keith for his political incorrectness. Sorry y'all, but one comment, about one woman, in the dugout of a GAME, will not set gender equity, whatever the hell that is, back 20 years. A person can't even make an off the cuff remark anymore, and apologize for it seconds later, without being crucified by a bunch of namby pamby Mr. Mom's. I think he just said what a bunch of us have felt ever since Spanky and Alfalfa tacked up the first "No girls allowed" sign on the clubhouse. Don't make it bigger than what it is, for petey's, er, petes sake.
posted by mjkredliner at 09:31 PM on April 24, 2006
Hmmm...is a Neil Allen reference gauche, at this time?
posted by wolfdad at 09:33 PM on April 24, 2006
Sure is.
posted by mjkredliner at 09:36 PM on April 24, 2006
The Mets knew when they hired him that he was prone to off the wall comments That's why he is there.
posted by doggstarr at 09:49 PM on April 24, 2006
i concur, mjkredliner
posted by steelergirl at 09:54 PM on April 24, 2006
Stupid is as stupid does.
posted by dbt302 at 10:07 PM on April 24, 2006
I hear their periods attract bears.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:30 PM on April 24, 2006
After reading that story (which I can quote in its entirety as "content 2420280 is null", I guess it is broken) all I can say is... boy, that Keith Hernandez really burns me up. Who does he think he is, nulling 2420280's content!
posted by gspm at 10:45 PM on April 24, 2006
I spent a lot of time in dugouts,and never seemed to be any females around. I take that back,there was an old country doctor that was the team doc for this one club,and he had a daughter that assisted him.come to think of it,she looked like a man,anyway.I agree with Keith,I'm not saying they belong in the kitchen,but get them out of the dugout.
posted by Tubby Fan at 11:03 PM on April 24, 2006
As an athletic trainer, I'm in the dugout a lot. If women athletic trainer, massage therapists, etc who worked with men's teams were really that offended by scratching, profanity, and the such they would pick different careers. None of that bothers me. I once had a coach (men's basketball) ask me if his swearing offended me and I was confused by the question and told him as long as the comment doesn't end with my name, it's alright with me. I'm not around to tell people how to act or coach, I'm there to keep the athletes healthy. People who believe the stuff Hernandez says are doing players a disservice. Even football has female athletic trainers and no one makes a big deal about that. Both women "rock" and inspire me to work harder.
posted by spgrl at 11:36 PM on April 24, 2006
I can't tell if you guys are serious or making fun of him. She wasn't "allowed in the dugout," she was on the payroll. It was her job to be there. I can't believe anyone is defending this knuckledragger. (And it wasn't "just one comment." He had his foot in his mouth up to the knee.) I doubt they show anywhere else, but he does these commercials for some aftershave with Walt Frazier of all people (they do play-by-play while some dude is macking on some chick) that are equally Ron Burgundy-era off-color. So this isn't really a surprise. Moron.
posted by chicobangs at 11:38 PM on April 24, 2006
I think he just said what a bunch of us have felt ever since Spanky and Alfalfa tacked up the first "No girls allowed" sign on the clubhouse. I agree with Keith,I'm not saying they belong in the kitchen,but get them out of the dugout. Fellas, I'm not quite convinced the "our" collective "manhood" will be any more secure in the absence of any female presence in the sport-sphere. Calabrese is a "trainer" ... and obviously a darn good one if she's been with the club for a couple of years. Those of you opposed to her presence in the dugout (and I'm assuming the locker room too) would prefer to get a rub down from a dude??? What? It's not about "sex" when he's rubbin' you down? Oh, then why does it matter if Calabrese is a "chick" then??? What exactly does her presence represent? What does it threaten? Why can't she be there? Just 'cause a lot of folks are "thinkin' it" ... doesn't mean that it's "right". I mean come on ... I could go on about this for hours, but I've got dishes in the sink ...
posted by Spitztengle at 11:43 PM on April 24, 2006
Here's how I read this whole thing: Many baseball players turned baseball announcers are stuck in old school mentalities that are clearly outdated and do not apply to modern day society. It's unfortunate and misogynistic, but it's just a symptom of a greater evil, of players-turned-announcers just reciting received wisdom and attacking anything that threatens the "traditional way of playing baseball."
posted by uglatto at 11:56 PM on April 24, 2006
You know, uglatto, I'd believe that, except the response to this from everywhere (outside this thread) has been pretty much swift and unanimous. Hernandez is a misogynist jackass even by ex-jock standards. Everyone else involved the sport (playing it, hiring for it, reporting on it) seems to have come around on the whole women in the locker room question, in most cases decades ago. The fact that Keith Hernandez has somehow failed to pull his head out of his ass when even the other racists and everythingelseophobes have somehow managed to get out of the whole GRLZ NOT ALOWD mentality says volumes about how truly out of touch he is.
posted by chicobangs at 12:50 AM on April 25, 2006
No, it just proves that you all take your self righteousness way too seriously, and that the yankee sense of humor is drier than Texas sand. He didn't hurt anyone, for god's sake. It damn sure isn't going to foil any great strides made in gender equity, it was just a remark that offended some of you all, and that doesn't make him any of the things you all suggest he, or I, am. Lighten up.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:15 AM on April 25, 2006
does that delorian take unleaded or diesel, mjk?
posted by ninjavshippo at 01:22 AM on April 25, 2006
it was just a remark that offended some of you all... If by "some of you all" you mean not just we uptight elite intellectual types, but everyone on ESPN (which last I checked had talking heads from all over the country, not just the Allegedly Great Liberal North) & the front office at MSG (Hernandez's own network), not to mention his broadcast mate, who caught it immediately as he was saying it and urged him repeatedly to apologize at that exact moment, then yeah, we "genteel" "lilylivered" "yankee" types took offense at what the poor put-upon old jock from Bedrock had to say about "the little lady." See, you let shit like this slide, worse things follow it. I'm glad, and frankly pleasantly surprised, that the response to this has been so quick and widespread.
posted by chicobangs at 01:36 AM on April 25, 2006
Note: It's SportsNet, not MSG. I stand pre-corrected. Also, mjk, it's the Mets, not the Yankees. You may not care, but up in these parts them can be fightin' words.
posted by chicobangs at 01:43 AM on April 25, 2006
Har Har, chico, point(s) taken. I knew I could count on a good response from you. Perhaps I, not having seen said comment made, and therefore not being able to judge whether or not he "smiled when he said that, podnuh", took it too lightly. My point isn't that what he said was not wrong, it's just that there are far to many people willing to heap on castigation to the degree that it becomes ridiculous. And, there was a twinkle in my eye when I made the above comments, although I am not as accomplished as you are in the world of writing, and therefore my point(s) were obviously not well recieved. But, what the hell, maybe me and Keith will both figure it out someday.
posted by mjkredliner at 02:12 AM on April 25, 2006
Smoke a Doob and Rock on Kieth
posted by undwriter99 at 04:17 AM on April 25, 2006
I can't tell if you guys are serious or making fun of him. Me either.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:07 AM on April 25, 2006
He didn't hurt anyone, for god's sake. Au contraire. That's the point.
posted by fabulon7 at 07:44 AM on April 25, 2006
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when you take a job in broadcasting, you need to keep any possibly controversial opinions to yourself, becuase you are now a representative of the network. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out.
posted by Samsonov14 at 07:51 AM on April 25, 2006
I wonder if the Broad chews Redman. If not someone should spit on her shoes for gender equity.
posted by JIM W. at 07:58 AM on April 25, 2006
Mr. Hernandez, some "gals" here to see you.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:03 AM on April 25, 2006
If you get the chance to hear this... The thing that is so shocking about it is how shocked Keith Hernandez is by seeing a woman in the dugout. He's genuinely amazed and clearly appalled. I'm baffled that this is even an issue, but there you have it. By the way, it would suck to be this guy right now.
posted by 86 at 08:16 AM on April 25, 2006
Even if you take the trainer's sex out of the equation, what he said was stupid and out of line; the non-players in the dugout are none of his concern as a broadcaster. Okay, maybe if they were getting a visit from Donald Trump or Bud Selig or Ty Cobb, it would be noteworthy (particularly Ty Cobb), but Hernandez has no reason to keep us informed as to who works for the Padres. Seriously, it's like if he was wasting our time telling us about the one particularly tall groundskeeper or something. So he's wrong to mention it, even without the sexist stance. Mixing in the misogyny is adding gasoline to the fire, and Hernandez deserves to burn. Anyone who thinks he doesn't is probably pretty sexist themselves, and should grow up and learn the golden rule.
posted by Hugh Janus at 08:16 AM on April 25, 2006
I just love that he was so shocked. Like such an event was simply preposterous. Unthinkable, even - despite the fact that there have been women in dugouts for many years now, on many different teams. Just like women reporters in the locker room. And his particular prediliction towards being unknowingly stupid is also quite charming. Frankly, I think the mustache is behind all this. It's been controlling his life for so long, he no longer remembers what it was like to be in control.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:24 AM on April 25, 2006
I would say a sautee is more in line than a gasoline fire/explosion, but that's just me.
posted by forrestv at 08:29 AM on April 25, 2006
but he does these commercials for some aftershave with Walt Frazier of all people it's actually a just for men haircolor commercial.
posted by goddam at 09:52 AM on April 25, 2006
Once again, A stupid , but very off the cuff, comment is getting way too much press. How a person does their job, not their gender should be the guiding light. That said, we must be able to laugh a little bit at oursleves. We seem to over react to anything that might be seen as offending. I dont think Hernadez meant anything hurtful by his comments. This is really a non-story.
posted by daddisamm at 11:12 AM on April 25, 2006
To be honest, I find Hernandez's "Just For Men Comercials" more offending than these comments. Lets face it, a women in a Major League dugout is something you don't see everyday. I would venture to guess that many of us might make a similar reactionary comment if put in the same situation.
posted by daddisamm at 11:21 AM on April 25, 2006
Speak for yourself, daddisamm.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:27 AM on April 25, 2006
Lets face it, a women in a Major League dugout is something you don't see everyday. Then you're not looking, because they're all over, and have been for a long time now. Although those ads are astonishingly awful. (And goddam, you understand why I would have never bothered remembering what the product was.)
posted by chicobangs at 11:37 AM on April 25, 2006
The irony of this is that, the reason Keith Hernandez doesn't want women in the dugout, is to prevent them from seeing and hearing things men do when they are by themselves. Once upon a time it was considered not gentlemen-like to scratch, burp, spit or curse in front of a lady. I guess those days are gone forever as well. Yes, some women got offended by the 'no girls allowed' comments, but I'm sure others also got offended by exactly the opposite.
posted by gloglu at 11:53 AM on April 25, 2006
What now since the female trainer is in the dugout if she witnesses some player adjusting his "junk" its sexual?? If I had a Susan B. Anthony dollar for every time I heard that, I'd be a dollar richer and still just as confused as to what your point wasn't.
posted by yerfatma at 11:59 AM on April 25, 2006
Is this some new fad the Met's are starting? Why does a Massage therapist need to be in the dugout? Other than a perk from her locker room job , do the Met's want the world to see some woman rubbing shoulders in between innings? Aside from counting there bank accounts I think they have a hard enough time keeping their heads in the game. No pun intended. I know a couple of high school ballplayers that would love to have a chick rubbing their shoulders, and not just in the dugout.
posted by volfire at 12:01 PM on April 25, 2006
This article fleshes the story out a little, and includes responses from some female Mets fans. Padres manager Bruce Bochy's reaction to this was surprise that gender was even an issue anymore. I was inclined to agree, but now I'm not so sure. Not because of Hernandez's comments, but because of the reaction to them. I really thought the advancement of women toward equality in the sports fields had at least progressed to the point where such blatant sexism as Hernandez spouted would be viewed as laughably absurd, and not a leak from the groundswell of a subversive movement. Calabrese's response that, "“He not only discredited me as a person, but he discredited women," leads me to believe that either the acceptance of women in baseball is moving at an even more glacial pace than I realized, or that Hernandez's influence on his audience is far greater than I'm willing to acknowledge. Maybe both. Either way, I'm with Bocce, Calabrese, and the like-minded posters here -- totally stunned.
posted by BullpenPro at 12:08 PM on April 25, 2006
What the f&@k is a "massage therapist" doing in the dougout in the first place (male or female)?
posted by drevl at 12:19 PM on April 25, 2006
But ... it is laughably absurd. We're talking about a particular woman here, who chose to take the job she took, and who seems to like it enough to stick with it. It's also about the other trainers and employees of the game who share, in most cases, a gender with this woman and maybe nothing else. (I know, crazy talk!) Why people continue to lump Kelly Calabrese in with the strange alien race of apparently identical odd creatures who baffle Keith Hernandez with their funny smells and their oddly-placed lumps is kind of silly. (And on (long) preview): What the f&@k is a "massage therapist" doing in the dougout in the first place (male or female)? I don't know. Maybe their job? If you watch someone cramp up or get hurt, the chances of you being able to fix the muscle properly go way up. So, yeah, hope that answers your question.
posted by chicobangs at 12:26 PM on April 25, 2006
Is'nt that what the locker room is for? Ive seen pitchers with ice on there sholders before, but never witnessed someone getting rubbed down. If your hurting that bad they go to the locker room. This isn't like the NFL were there's a great distance to travel. And as a side note how many other MLB teams have massage therapy going on in the dugout, gender aside?Now I for one would LOVE to hear some Uecker commentary on that one!
posted by volfire at 12:34 PM on April 25, 2006
They get massaged so they won't need ice later. Are you trying to dodge the Hernandez'-words-were-sexist issue by bringing up so-called "legitimate" reasons Calabrese shouldn't have been there: reasons that don't pertain to her sex? That seems disingenuous and a tad slimy (though I may just be misinterpreting what you wrote). Iteresting column, bullpenpro. Particularly the quotes from Suzyn Waldman, who based solely on merit and not at all on her sex, I think is a shitty analyst. But I like John Sterling even less.
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:09 PM on April 25, 2006
People - who do you think is in the dugout? Coaches, players, trainers and equipment guys including ball boys. There should be no surprise that one of the trainers for the Padres is in the dugout. That surprise speaks of ignorance - of either the notion of a professional staff, or the fact that most of these "trainers" are basically masseuses, anyway. Don't obfuscate the gender issue.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:17 PM on April 25, 2006
I've watched a zillion MLB games on tv and have never seen a woman in the dugout. Someone has way too much time on their hands to make a big deal out of a dumb but innocuous comment. The mets should count their blessings with Keith, they could really be embarrassed if they had to listen to the Cards Al Hrabosky all the time.
posted by rchugh at 01:29 PM on April 25, 2006
What the f&@k is a "massage therapist" doing in the dougout in the first place (male or female)? The Red Sox have had a (male) massage therapist (Chris Corriente - sp?) in the dugout since Pedro first started to break down. Pedro's gone, but he's still here.
posted by yerfatma at 01:40 PM on April 25, 2006
And you see Correnti and Jim Rowe a lot.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:43 PM on April 25, 2006
Really, yerfatma? Well, I won't say that a man's place is in the auto body shop, but it certainly isn't at a massage table. No disrespect, fellas. I love you dudes, always have.
posted by chicobangs at 01:44 PM on April 25, 2006
Not to get picky or anything, but Calabrese works for the Padres, not the "Met's."
posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:47 PM on April 25, 2006
Someone has way too much time on their hands to make a big deal out of a dumb but innocuous comment. You know who made a big deal about this? Keith Hernandez. It was mentioned earlier, but the color commentator does not need to be pointing out who Piazza is slapping five with in the dugout. Hernandez chose to go there. And in case you think it was a small issue... The issue kept coming up over and over for the rest of the telecast. And Hernandez had an opportunity to apologize or clarify his comments and you know what he did? He prefaced his follow-up with the statement, "I'm not saying they should stay in the kitchen..." Please note, that was his way of explaining his position! Since that time I've seen every manner of justification tried out on this one, but if you were watching you know the Hernandez meant this exactly the way it comes out in the press, if not worse.
posted by 86 at 02:17 PM on April 25, 2006
Lets face it, a women in a Major League dugout is something you don't see everyday. Then you're not looking, because they're all over, and have been for a long time now. Chico-I have seen Women in the Dugout before. It is something that is still not that common. And jersery girl, I am not proud of it< but I have made a dumb comment or two in my lifetime. We all have. Those little slip-ups. shouldnt brand us as something that we aren't.
posted by daddisamm at 02:31 PM on April 25, 2006
This guy, though, slipped up and then was offered a hand by his buddy in the booth, which he refused, and then proceeded a long slide to the base he's on now -- which he got to under his own steam, by repeating his claims again and again. That's not one of those mistakes where he said something he didn't really believe; that's reiterating a belief that most thinking people consider mistaken. His day-after apology was under orders from his employer, and if he didn't make it, they probably would have suspended him. Not to cover their asses, but to make it clear to Hernandez that his belief, that women have no place as trainers on a baseball team, is unacceptable. If you agree with him, fine. You're sexist, too, and there's not much anyone can tell you that'll change your mind. But if you don't agree, defending his attitude shows strange sympathy for a stance you disagree with. That's where the storm in a teacup comes from. Please believe me, I'm not trying to call anyone names here, but to point out that excusing his statements is kind of weird if you think women should have the opportunity to be pro baseball trainers. It's a fundamental disconnect, and it sounds like there might be deeply-held opinions that aren't surfacing. Which is okay, everyone's got a right to their opinion, but everyone should know that every opinion doesn't have the right to respect.
posted by Hugh Janus at 02:54 PM on April 25, 2006
People can either take Hernandez' side or think he's an idiot. But the truth of the matter is that nobody touched on the most important issue involving this particular female trainer in the dugout. This isn't about gender equality or if Hernandez is a sexist pig. The only thing that truly matters is one question. WAS SHE HOT?!
posted by Desert Dog at 03:13 PM on April 25, 2006
This guy, though, slipped up and then was offered a hand by his buddy in the booth, which he refused, and then proceeded a long slide to the base he's on now -- which he got to under his own steam, by repeating his claims again and again. We call that Pulling a Lobel in Boston.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:24 PM on April 25, 2006
I have made a dumb comment or two in my lifetime. We all have. Those little slip-ups. shouldnt brand us as something that we aren't. dada, I completely appreciate your desire to see the best in people. I have no problem with that. But this is Keith Hernandez, not some guy. It's not like this is the first time he's shown he's an ass. Confidential to jg in ma: Keith Herandez got caught on camera at a sporting event with his mistress?
posted by yerfatma at 05:05 PM on April 25, 2006
well, I meant the Lobel show. I guess it was Pulling a Ryan though, to be correct. Lobel got caught on camera with his mistress? Oh that sly (drunk) fox.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:31 PM on April 25, 2006
Are you trying to dodge the Hernandez'-words-were-sexist issue by bringing up so-called "legitimate" reasons Calabrese shouldn't have been there: reasons that don't pertain to her sex? That seems disingenuous and a tad slimy (though I may just be misinterpreting what you wrote). I'd have to agree. Hernandez in no way indicated that he was questioning what a "trainer" was doing in the dugout. However, to answer the question, this story has this quote from the Padres' head trainer: "We work on these guys every day," Hutcheson said. "For us to be out here and see what happens is an enormous plus to us. She's working on 10 to 15 guys a day. From the dugout, she can see how a guy's running; it can tip her off. "It helps us take care of players better if we can see what's going on out on the field. Plus, it helps us to be part of the team. You win championships with a team atmosphere. Kelly works very well with the players; she has the type of personality that fits in." Regardless of how you feel about that justification, the accusations point to Hernandez being a misogynist, not a massagenist.
posted by BullpenPro at 12:23 PM on April 26, 2006
"She's working on 10 to 15 guys a day." Undoubtedly not on the list of her mom's 1985 list of Things I'd Like to Hear About My Daughter's Work When She Grows Up.
posted by yerfatma at 01:54 PM on April 26, 2006
Female massage therapist has paid her dues.
posted by justgary at 08:20 PM on April 27, 2006
Cool story, justgary. (Even if it is from a Boston site!) Thanks for that.
posted by BullpenPro at 10:20 PM on April 27, 2006
Yea- pretty sweet article Gary
posted by redsoxrgay at 08:27 PM on May 17, 2006
TOP 5 KEITH HERNANDEZ LOSER MOMENTS 5)A future drug-tapped Hernandez is caught working a cross-word puzzle on the Cardinal bench during a pennant drive, stuck on the clue, "doobie" 4)The "Just For Men" commercial with Walt Frazier (Clyde, what happened to those KILLER "Superfly" chops???) 3)Not scoring with "everybody's girl", Elaine on "Seinfeld", because "I'm Keith Hernandez" 2)Setting sexual "equality" back 20 years with the "girl on the bench" remark and ....... 1)Just BEING KEITH HERNANDEZ!!!