11/05/24
January 29, 2006
posted by justgary to basketball at 07:39 PM - 32 comments
I really got to think that Lebron has been the toughest all around player at this point... he's beating Kobe in just about all stats besides ppg, and hes no slouch when it comes to putting the ball in the basket. At 21 its justifiable to say that hes got plenty of years to get an mvp, but i don't think that should be a factor. Oh yeah... Chris Paul? No shit.
posted by everett at 01:48 AM on January 30, 2006
MVP ?? Chauncey Billups Most improved player Chris Bosh , or Mehmet Okur , Defensive player Tayshaun Prince , Shawn Marion or Ben Wallace ... It's not the individual stats that count as much as the impact that you have on your team .
posted by alvinthefirst at 06:39 AM on January 30, 2006
MVP: Nash. Rookie: Paul. Coach: D'Antoni. 6th Man: Boykins. Most Improved: Bosh. Defensive: Marion. Executive: Buford. Anti-Executive (Fantasy): Smithers. I know I have 3 Suns here, but it is definitely within the realm of possibility.
posted by smithers at 07:49 AM on January 30, 2006
The most improved player may have been just traded to the Celtics. Wally Z has indeed brought his game back to where it once was. Maybe he is more of a "come back player of the Year" type. He should be in some type of award discussion.
posted by daddisamm at 08:28 AM on January 30, 2006
If Kobe gets his team to the playoffs I dont know how you cant call him the MVP. I think currently they are like 7th or something, thats saying a lot for a team that looks completely lost at times. If not for that I would say Nash is the MVP, no Amare still 11.5 assists a game. His game is mindblowing. Mark Cuban is an idiot. How can Chauncey be the MVP when the team would be hurt more with the losses of Ben, Rasheed, or Tayshaun. Detroit wins because of defense and last time I checked Chauncey doesnt shut down his man so much as channel him to meet Big Ben or one of the big guys in the paint. I would call Tayshaun their MVP before Chauncey.
posted by Drallig9399 at 08:35 AM on January 30, 2006
Would you guys agree that Elton Brand should be considered an MVP candidate? This guy is so underrated and deserves better.
posted by pepitothechihuahua at 09:40 AM on January 30, 2006
I agree with every pick by smithers with the exception of Bruce Bowen for defensive rather than Marion.
posted by mustang71 at 10:32 AM on January 30, 2006
In the land of Power Forwards Elton is still not in the top 5, I think thats his problem. Bruce Bowen is the only guy I have ever heard of that holdsand grabs that much and gets rewarded for it. He has never actually been the best defensive player in the league. If other 2 guards werent asked to score they might have more energy to exert on that end of the floor. As far as sheer stopping power I would put Marion, Lebron, and Kobe ahead of him even though the list is longer than that.
posted by Drallig9399 at 10:41 AM on January 30, 2006
re: Mark Cuban is an idiot. Have you read his detailed take on not resigning Nash? Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. Just pointing it out in case you want to read his side of the story.
posted by gspm at 10:43 AM on January 30, 2006
I really got to think that Lebron has been the toughest all around player at this point... he's beating Kobe in just about all stats besides ppg I know I'm a homer but, if you name these players and say they should be MVP based on numbers, then you still have to mention Iverson. 2ND in scoring at a career best 33.6 ppg at another career best 45% from the floor. 7th in assts. at a career best 7.5 apg 6th in steals at 1.93 pg He's tied for 17th in the league in rebounding among 56 listed point gaurds at 3.4 pg He's in the top 7 of these 3 major categorys. No other player mentioned is in the top 14 of all 3 categorys. The closest is Lebron, 3rd in ppg, 15th is assts pg and 14th in stls pg. The sixers are 2nd in the league in ppg. If they get their defense together, they'll get into the 2nd round of the playoffs easy. All this talk about lebron and philly is only 3 games behind Cleveland in the East.
posted by BlogZilla at 12:11 PM on January 30, 2006
mustang71: I was hoping you would at least argue against the Anti-Executive (Fantasy) pick... ;)
posted by smithers at 12:18 PM on January 30, 2006
At first thought of an MVP, it has to be Nash. Without Amare people thought they would have a losing season, or at least not a good one. But Nash has really stepped up. I mean have you watched one of his games. They don't know if he is going to stop and pop it, which for him is almost automatic. Or if he will send them one direction while he dishes it to one of his teammates. But you would have to consider that if that player was out how would they adjust. Chauncey could be out and Detroit would still shut opposing offenses out. (Which is pretty much what is the core of their success). So it is a hard choice that would be between: Kobe Lebron Nash Dirk or Iverson
posted by threemoney21 at 12:22 PM on January 30, 2006
I'd be all over Iverson as MVP this year - if the Sixers were actually winning and AI wasn't making his 'this team sucks' comments and walking out on them as he has done recently. That kinda hurts the MVP credibility. No chance. Nash really created a problem when he won last year. I mean, his numbers were really weak for an MVP last year, and because he has even better numbers this year, and the team is winning without Amare, how could you vote for him last year and not this year? However, there are about a dozen guys you'd take before him if you were building a team from scratch. How can that guy be the MVP? And I LOVE me some Steve Nash. Right now, I have to give it to Kobe. He is a ruthless, relentless basketball machine who hasn't taken a play off this entire year. That team is making the playoffs because of his personal pursuit of glory - and he is easily the best player in the league right now (Lebron is fantastic for sure - but he doesn't play nearly as good defence as Kobe for all his statistical domination). I think it goes down: Kobe Nash Lebron Dirk Iverson
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:10 PM on January 30, 2006
It would have been nice to include the coach of the L.A.Clippers. He has taken an obscure team and made them a "contender".
posted by westcoast at 01:16 PM on January 30, 2006
To give coach of the year to anybody but Flip Saunders is just not right. The Pistons have smoked the competition and right now it doesn't look like anybody can beat them. Saunders took a great team and made them near unbeatable. As for people ignoring Billups for MVP, that is why he probably won't start the All-Star game even though there will not be anyone better than him starting for the East. However, Kobe Bryant is also very deserving of MVP honors.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:56 PM on January 30, 2006
Sounds to me as if the anti-Bowen nay sayers are Suns fans. By the way, Smithers you still have my vote.
posted by mustang71 at 02:12 PM on January 30, 2006
Blogzilla, agreed Iverson is playing so great, it hurts him that the 6ers are getting rocked on a regular basis, I was mostly just saying that it is silly to put Kobe on a Pedestal, or should i say to put the Pussy on a pedestal. ok... that was silly but I just hate the idea of forcing Kobe in to that place because of a handful of good games and one great game. Kobe is still inconsistent at times, and his team is struggling. Who cares if you have 50, and your team still loses. So maybe Iverson, not Brand; underrated yes, but still not quite yet. Nash didn't deserve it last year, hes making a case for it this year... but hes an alien, so no. Lebron definitely contending. Billups? uh... no! Kobe... not before Iverson or Lebron. I wont even mention Dirk...
posted by everett at 02:45 PM on January 30, 2006
As much as I'd love to make a case for T-Mac (come on, 0-13 without him in the lineup), I know that not only would I be called "stupid, arrogant and VERY ignorant" I would be ignoring the brilliance of one man who gets NO credit. Where is Gilbert Arenas? I know he shouldn't win it this year (hell, I don't know who's got it THIS season) Look at his game and numbers. He's one of the most exciting point guards out there, giving out over 28 points per game. He only averages 6 assists a game, but this team needs him to score, and score he does. He shoots 43.6% from the floor (35.5% from 3) and he is definitely the one guy that Wizards players turn to. I just wish that he'd get more credit for the job he does. You can make the arguement that he's not a pure point guard, but in this age, there are really two types of point guards: Steve Nash and everyone else. Arenas will get up there one day, and man, watch out when he does.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 10:14 PM on January 30, 2006
You can make the arguement that he's not a pure point guard, but in this age, there are really two types of point guards: Steve Nash and everyone else. Arenas will get up there one day, and man, watch out when he does. Actually, I think you make a good point, chemwiz, but I think it's a bit more complicated than you put it. There certainly are two types of point guards: Traditional and New NBA Style. Under traditional, I'd throw Nash, Ridnour, Knight, etc....those who run the floor to set up plays and seek to really be the quarterback of the team, helping others score. Conversely, you have the prototypical shooting guard that can create his own shots - and yeah, they can pass - and therefore they run the floor, like, say Iverson, Wade, Terry, and yes, Arenas. I really don't have a preference for one style of play over another, and it may be that hybrids like Chauncy Billups or Tony Parker* are best overall, but there definitely is a big distinction between team and coaching offensive philosophy when you look at it this way. The same could be said for the other vital (and rare) role in the NBA: the Center spot. The only thing I don't get about the mid-season awards is the complete lack of Avery Johnson in the discussion. He led a team that has had multiple injuries (Daniels, Stackhouse, Howard, Harris, Van Horn) to a tie for the second best record in the NBA, in a way that they haven't done it in the past, i.e. not just relying on the run and gun to try to outscore the other team. Say what you will about the Mavs and their lack of post-season success, but they've already had impressive wins over the Spurs, Pistons, Heat, Pacers, Clippers, Suns (twice) and Sonics (twice). This all under the helm of, basically, a rookie coach. How he of all people on this team flies under the radar mystifies me.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:39 AM on January 31, 2006
Crap, forgot to add my footnote... *Sure, it's easy picking the PGs from the two teams of last year's finals, but they were honestly the first two that came to mind. Furthermore, from here until the end of the Western Conference Finals, anyone seeing me extoll the performance of a Spur is free to smack the snot out my head. Thanks in advance.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:51 AM on January 31, 2006
The only thing I don't get about the mid-season awards is the complete lack of Avery Johnson in the discussion. Great point, Ufez....although the Mavs are totally deep. I'll stand by my assertion that D'Antoni has done more with less.
posted by smithers at 08:37 AM on January 31, 2006
Mark Cuban is an idiot because he didnt want to give Nash some more money and a few more years. Who cares about 5 years from now when the guy was the MVP of the league once he leaves your team. Then on top of that is having an even better year without his star player. On top of that Mark lost him to a Conference foe, that is crazy. Bruce Bowen is garbage, that guy is dirty. I dont see holding a player and running under his feet after he shoots trying to get him to sprain an ankle, which he does to VC and Ray Allen constantly, good defense.
posted by Drallig9399 at 09:16 AM on January 31, 2006
I'll stand by my assertion that D'Antoni has done more with less. I can't argue with that at all, smithers. I just think of all the Mavericks, Avery deserves to be in the discussion for COY more than Dirk/MVP, Devin/6th Man, Devin and J-Ho/most improved, or even Josh Powell/ROY. As far as them being totally deep, the only major difference between last year's squad and this year's is the absence of Michael Finley and Alan Henderson for the gain of Diop and the return of Adrian Griffin. Granted, Diop's had a bit of a coming out year swapping time with Dampier, but essentially we're looking at the same squad as last year.
posted by Ufez Jones at 09:44 AM on January 31, 2006
the only major difference between last year's squad and this year's... is the fact that Devin Harris and Josh Howard have emerged as genuinely good players? Essentially the same squad, but the personnel are maturing rapidly, so a very new squad as well. Though I am surprised L'il General isn't getting any mention either....his job has been more impressive than Flip Saunders', IMHO.
posted by smithers at 01:12 PM on January 31, 2006
I agree, smithers, and I actually thought of including player maturation, but I think a lot of that was a full off-season and training camp under Avery's tutelage. What would Don Nelson have done, teach 'em how to run and score quick points (which they already know how to do quite well)? Just one quick stat: So far as a head coach in the regular season, Avery is 50-12, a winning percentage of better than .800. Extraplate that out to 82 games, and you're looking at a full season with a 66-14 record. Not bad for a rook. We don't have a fight for our dogs here, smithers, and nobody else seems to want to chime in, so I'm just gonna take off and hopefully enjoy the winning streak hitting nine.
posted by Ufez Jones at 05:29 PM on January 31, 2006
And the Raps are at 1 in a row, so we are both happy. :)
posted by smithers at 09:07 PM on January 31, 2006
I have looked at this thread and there's one omission that I've seen: The OTHER LA team. I mean, EVEN KOBE gets attention on this thread, but who currently has the better record? The Clippers do. Granted, the additions of Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley (both ex Houston Rockets I must add) has paid dividends for a team that has had some lapses at times, injuries (Corey Maggette is a serious scorer for them), but the emergence of the Brand/Kamen inside combo (not an ELITE combo, but still pretty formidable) has been a huge lift for the team. I hope to see this team continue to grow and not be the 2006 version of the Seattle Supersonics.
posted by chemwizBsquared at 09:37 PM on January 31, 2006
First of all, no way on Iverson. He is a fabulous player with some great numbers, but with the personnel that they have, they should have a better record. Kobe scored 81 in a game, easily comparable with Wilt's 100. Wilt was 7 feet, scoring over 6'6 at the TALLEST. Kobe was triple teamed and couldn't be stopped. Lakers make it to the playoffs, hand it to Kobe. If the Pistons beat the Bulls' 72-10, hand it to Billups. It doesn't matter that the whole team is incredible. If they beat that record, then they will be the best single season team, EVER. The MVP must go to that team, and Chauncey is their go to guy. If those two don't happen, Dirk has lifted his game to a new level. If they finish with the first or second best record in the West, Dirk could get it. If none of these things happen, Steve Nash will be a repeat, and that is that.
posted by Snikastyle at 01:07 PM on February 01, 2006
Snikastyle... wrong!
posted by everett at 03:12 PM on February 02, 2006
The Lakers might not make the playoffs. How can you say Kobe? We're talking about the MVP. What if Kobe increased his assts, and the team started winning more. You would have to consider that valuable. On the other hand, what if his assts being down is costing the team wins? That doesn't make him valuable, it makes him a liabilty. He needs to catch the same rap Iverson use to catch when his shots were up, and his shooting % and assts were down. If the sixers make the playoffs, it has to be Iverson on sheer stats alone. The comment about them having a better record with their roster is a coaching issue, not an Iverson issue. They are 3rd in the league in offense, its defense they have a problem with. Although its ironic that they have the leading shot blocker in the league (Dalembert) and 2 of the leading rip men in the league (AI and AI) both almost 1.75 steals pg.
posted by BlogZilla at 07:21 PM on February 02, 2006
Except that if you can't lead your team to the playoffs your not to valuable are you? It is Most Valuable Player to a team and team success is not measured by scoring average, rather it is measured by wins. An MVP should not come from a team that misses the playoffs simply because they are not deserving. They were unable to lift the team high enough to make the playoffs. Stats come into play when you are forced to compare players from winning teams, to decide who was more valuable to their team.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:22 PM on February 03, 2006
I like this topic. Definately a close call on the MVP, I would probably give it to Dirk at this point. I mean, they lost their second option in Finley, and they came back to have a better start than last year. Nash is definately doing some amazing things, and if Bryant gets him team better than the 8 seed, I almost give it to him for the 81 alone. Rookie of the Year, I agree. 6th man, i probably agree also... however, Speedy Claxton has shown some real good ball. Most Improved Player: Mike James, David West, Smush Parker Defensive Player: Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion, Ben Wallace