11/17/24
November 01, 2005
Gold Glove Winners: Suprise, suprise, look at the gold glove winners....
posted by redsoxrgay to baseball at 07:00 PM - 34 comments
...and the Chicago White Sox _still_ don't get any respect.
posted by Nyssia at 07:51 PM on November 01, 2005
why do you say that nyssia? the only potential argument i see is crede over chavez or pierzynski over varitek, but chavez has the highest ZR for all 3Bs and ausmus could just as easily beat pierzynski. that said, i would have put in jack wilson over jeter.
posted by ninjavshippo at 08:27 PM on November 01, 2005
err.. just kidding on ausmus + wilson. note to self: don't sort fielding stats by mlb. /goes back to saying nothing.
posted by ninjavshippo at 08:30 PM on November 01, 2005
I am a huge fan of Hunter's web gems, but he only played 92 games this year. I found it a little surprising that he won his fifth straight gold glove.
posted by bdf1010 at 09:59 PM on November 01, 2005
True, Hunter played only 92 games-He still is the best in center field. He has earned great repsect. It doesnt surprise me that he won again. Getting a gold glove is more than "web gems".. Its fielding your position without errors among other things. . Remember that Mangers and coaches vote for these awards.
posted by daddisamm at 10:41 PM on November 01, 2005
I can see why vartiek won. However, the guy cant catch a knuckle ball to say his skin! As his reputaion grows, I see Joe Mauer of the Twins haul down a few gold gloves before his career is over. He has one of the best arms in the league. Its a matter of time. This year was basically still his rookie season.
posted by daddisamm at 10:47 PM on November 01, 2005
If Brian Roberts hadn't gone down with an injury in the last stretch of the season he should have been a lock for the Gold Glove. I realize I'm saying this because I saw a lot more of him than I did of Roberts, but Hudson was sick this year.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:01 PM on November 01, 2005
I don't know. OHud is a pretty amazing second basemen. I'd take his defense over Roberts any day. As for the White Sox not getting respect, I think Nyssia is right. Rowand should of got it over Hunter (he played half a season and really he doesn't cover near the ground that Rowand does) and Uribe over Jeter (or maybe OCab... I can't decide).
posted by panoptican at 11:01 PM on November 01, 2005
I see Joe Mauer of the Twins haul down a few gold gloves before his career is over. I was under the impression that his knees wouldn't hold out for a long career as a catcher, and that Minnesota is is waiting for the chance to put him at 1B or DH. Hudson was surprised he beat out Baltimore's Brian Roberts. "I would have bet anything that he was going to win," Hudson said. "This has always been a goal of mine, so I've accomplished one of my goals already." It's really getting hard to support the idea of trading Hudson for a slugger (an idea that has bounced around among the Blue Jays fans). He's a slick-fielding-gold-glove-winning 2B, and he's good with the media, his teammates love his enthusiasm, and now he's coming across as genuinely humble and respectful. If you went by Fielding Win Shares, the AL Gold Gloves would go to: C: Joe Mauer 1B: Mark Teixeira 2B: Orlando Hudson 3B: Eric Chavez SS: Juan Uribe OF: Aaron Rowand, Vernon Wells, Grady Sizemore And in the NL... C: Mike Matheny 1B: Derrek Lee 2B: Craig Counsell 3B: David Wright SS: Rafael Furcal OF: Brady Clark, Carlos Beltran, Willie Taveras
posted by grum@work at 11:10 PM on November 01, 2005
So- You guys are suprised by the results? I never second-questioned most of them. These are proven gold glovers (most of them) and I didnt disagree with any decisions except for the Hunter thing. Rowland def edged him. (Especially at Yankee Stadium) Those were some amazing plays.
posted by redsoxrgay at 04:49 AM on November 02, 2005
Slightly off-topic... Did anyone else wake up and wonder where the hell David Wright came swooping in from? It's got to be the quietest ascent to greatness ever. Or am I just living in AL-only oblivion?
posted by YukonGold at 07:34 AM on November 02, 2005
I was under the impression that his knees wouldn't hold out for a long career as a catcher, and that Minnesota is is waiting for the chance to put him at 1B or DH. e Mauer is too good of a catcher to move him else where. This talk didnt last very long. He had no real problems with his knees this year. He may DH a little, but with his arm and other catching talants, he'll be the Twins long term catcher.
posted by daddisamm at 07:46 AM on November 02, 2005
Al-only oblivion. Wright's been touted as the heir apparent to Chipper Jones and Mike Schmidt for two years. I'm surprised no one has really jumped hard on the anti-Jeter train - yet. I mean he's not even close to one of the best defensive shortstops anymore. And Dr.John - I saw plenty of Roberts and Hudson this year - and there is no comparison. Roberts is good, but Hudson is a whole other kind of Robbie-Alomar-circa-1992 good. His range is off the charts.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:46 AM on November 02, 2005
The National League... A whole new world 
posted by YukonGold at 07:58 AM on November 02, 2005
I'm surprised no one has really jumped hard on the anti-Jeter train - yet. I mean he's not even close to one of the best defensive shortstops anymore. But, according to the stats, he's much better than he used to be, and would be considered an above-average fielding shortstop now. I've been a strong basher of Jeter's defensive reputation for a while, but I can't seem to must a strong argument against him this year. I don't think he should have won it (Uribe), but it's not a crime against humanity like it would have been 5 years ago...
posted by grum@work at 08:28 AM on November 02, 2005
Wait - he's 30, been declining for years, and now the stats suggest he's MUCH better?!? I'm losing faith grum...
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:31 AM on November 02, 2005
There is no question that Orlando Hudson is a worthy gold-glover, any other decsion would have been laughable, Hudson has the glove, the range, the arm, he is simply awesome. I concur with what Weedy said, Hudson is Alomar re-dux, pure gold at 2nd-base defense. But I'm still not convinced Vernon Wells is a gold glover. I spent years watching Devon White, and there is no comparison.
posted by the red terror at 08:37 AM on November 02, 2005
I watched David Wright at (AAA) Norfolk, he's an impressive kid. They've been talking big future for him for a couple of years now.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:19 AM on November 02, 2005
Goodbye street cred. :(
posted by YukonGold at 09:57 AM on November 02, 2005
Wait - he's 30, been declining for years, and now the stats suggest he's MUCH better? declining in what sense? his fielding has improved over the past couple of years. i've seen it. others have seen it. and the stats show it too. was he the best shortstop in the AL this year? no. i'm sure there were others more deserving. but i don't think it's a crime that he got the GG. it's not a stat-based award. it's the perception of coaches and managers. if there's any injustice this year it's Torii.
posted by goddam at 10:02 AM on November 02, 2005
Well, I'm certainly no Jeter-hater. I think when it's all said and done he'll be welcomed into the Hall with open arms, and have a monument out in left with the greats - but I do not think he's even close in terms of defensive greatness. I mean, isn't his range factor really low? Have people not been saying that ARod is better? How can he get a gold glove? Hell, they give them away to 1st basemen and some outfielders sure are suspect, but a shortstop? The most taxed position on the field? Just very interesting is all. And players decline - they slow down, it's just age. Ripken wasn't a better shortstop in his 30s either.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:18 AM on November 02, 2005
Jeter 15 errors .979 fielding % Uribe 16 errors .977 fielding % Almost identical stats, I am a little bias towards Jeter but he slightly edged Uribe out. It's real hard to justify an anti-Jeter view on this one.
posted by HATER 187 at 10:53 AM on November 02, 2005
And players decline - they slow down, it's just age. Right, but you also get smarter through experience. Maybe he met up with a guy who knows from how to play shortstop who gave him some tips. Why, it could even be a busybody on his own team who works nearby who can't help but tell other players how to play. It's real hard to justify an anti-Jeter view on this one. It's hard to justify anything with fielding% or errors.
posted by yerfatma at 11:05 AM on November 02, 2005
There really aren't too many stats to quantify what a fielder has done. My point is that there are no glaring differences between the two. It could have gone either way.
posted by HATER 187 at 11:16 AM on November 02, 2005
I mean, isn't his range factor really low? i get the feeling that the guys that do the voting (like, say, Piniella) don't look at things like range factor.
posted by goddam at 11:22 AM on November 02, 2005
Jeter 15 errors .979 fielding % Uribe 16 errors .977 fielding % Almost identical stats, I am a little bias towards Jeter but he slightly edged Uribe out. It's real hard to justify an anti-Jeter view on this one. Fielding percentage/errors are tricky stats to use. It means that of all the balls that they got to, Uribe made just one more mistake. What it doesn't reflect is how many more balls Uribe might make a play on. For that, they use Range Factor. According to Baseball-Reference.com, the range factor values for: AL average shortstop: 4.17 Jeter: 4.56 Uribe: 4.60 So Uribe gets the edge there. In the end, it does come down to personal observations, and Jeter tends to make the more "dramatic" plays (jumping throws), whereas Uribe seems to make more of the routine plays (balls hit up the middle). Wait - he's 30, been declining for years, and now the stats suggest he's MUCH better?!? I'm losing faith grum... Well, his physical skills might be declining (ever-so-minutely), but his knowledge of how to better field the position might be improving. Maybe he positions himself better before the pitch? Maybe he moves himself to the left/right based on the incoming pitch? The skills that can be learned might be overtaking the skills that come naturally. The same thing can happen with batting: the twitch muscles might be slower, but the brain is able to know a curve ball is coming and can adjust properly.
posted by grum@work at 11:30 AM on November 02, 2005
What about Kenny "The camera beater" Rogers?
posted by BevoBacker at 11:31 AM on November 02, 2005
Throw me two curves and I can tell you what the next will do. Granted I might be down in the count - but I WILL connect.
posted by BevoBacker at 11:34 AM on November 02, 2005
Quick question how is range factor determined? I sometimes question how viable these stats are (like fielding %, I only used it becuase it fits into my argument)
posted by HATER 187 at 12:12 PM on November 02, 2005
Well, I like the Hudson choice; he's great. And Ichiro can still cover a lot of ground. Some of the rest, like Hunter, are proven gold glovers, which usually means they should have won the award 5 years ago. I'm sure Andruw Jones will win a Gold Glove today, but he's absolute nothing like the Andruw Jones we used to watch defensively - when you add enough weight to hit 50+ homers, your speed is going to decrease dramatically. Infielders do not decline with age nearly as fast as some outfielders do; that's why an infielder like Jeter can improve. (Craig Biggio still is a solid second baseman at 38) He's still not very good at going to his left, but he's clearly doing better overall. I suspect he's positioning himself better now that Rodriguez is next to him; he doesn't play quite as close to the hole as he did a few years ago. I'd have given to GG to Uribe, though Jason Bartlett impressed me a lot as well. Now some of the Silver Slugger awards were bizarre. Soriano over Roberts? Please; Roberts was way, way, way better than Soriano. Carlos Lee????? He wasn't even the best outfield hitter on his team, let alone of the top in the league. And I knew A Jones would get one, but he doesn't deserveit unless power is all that counts for the award (it is, granted, called silver sluggers, not silver hitter). Poor Brian Giles and Jason Bay.
posted by spira at 12:23 PM on November 02, 2005
Well, I expected some controversy over the Hunter one, but I don't think it rises to a Palmiero-type situation of injustice or anything. Some people say Rowand (or others), but I would take Hunter over Rowand. I'm saying at least its a defensible pick.
posted by chris2sy at 12:41 PM on November 02, 2005
What about Kenny "The camera beater" Rogers? He caught that damn cameraman first didn't he?
posted by jojomfd1 at 04:57 PM on November 02, 2005
If Brian Roberts hadn't gone down with an injury in the last stretch of the season he should have been a lock for the Gold Glove. Any bets on NL Gold Gloves?