11/05/24
October 24, 2005
MLB May Not Let the Astros Raise the Roof:
"The Astros were 36-17 at home when it was closed during the regular season, 15-11 when it was rolled back and 2-0 in games that began indoors and finished in fresh air."
"During the regular season, the Astros pick their environment. But during the postseason, the commissioner's office makes that call."
Frankly, MLB should not decide what the Astros's should do! It's intrusive to tell them not to raise their own roof! -What's next? Will they demand that the fans remain quiet and not cheer for their team?
I personally want to see how the White Sox play in such a hostile environment, where the crowds cheer echoes all over one's bones... where the ball carries a bit further when the roof is raised.... where Houston would really have a home field advantage! I'm rooting for the Sox, but I want to see a great game first and foremost.... This decision by MLB is bordering in ridiculous!
posted by zippinglou to baseball at 09:24 PM - 83 comments
I posed this question already in the last white sox win blog,but i think it should be the astros call homefield advantage should be just as it reads an advantage.
It seems to me whether the roof is open or not is inconsequential. The Astros are good at home, period. Check out my web site. Diesel Sports Blog
posted by Diesel99 at 10:34 PM on October 24, 2005
seems to me that 36-17 is a better win % than 15-11 and the astro's need all the help they can get..
the umps can't make bad calls. so mlb can do the same . isay close the roof and play ball if you ain't scared.ITS ON
posted by dback2 at 11:46 PM on October 24, 2005
It seems to me whether the roof is open or not is inconsequential. The Astros are good at home, period. Check out my web site Not according to this year's stats, Diesel99.
posted by zippinglou at 01:31 AM on October 25, 2005
Frankly, I think that it's annoying to sit at home watching a game, and you can't even hear the commentators because of all the noise from the fans. Not to say they shouldn't cheer, etc., but it's obvious that they are trying to rattle the opposing team...is this the only way that the Astros can win? Open the roof and let's see if the Astros can win on their own merit, not because their fans are screaming the whole time causing the equilibrium of the other team to be off-balance (as evidenced by the quote below): Houston third baseman Morgan Ensberg thinks the difference is huge. "It's a different place with the roof closed," he said. "I don't think they understand when those guys are cheering, how loud it really gets. It throws your equilibrium off. They're not going to be able to hear each other."
posted by bravesfan at 01:45 AM on October 25, 2005
I think the fans will be somewhat of an impact merely because the Astros are home representing their first ever World Series appearance, who cares about the Juice Box's lid? Open, shut, the Sox have prepped for it I'm sure, they'll come to play. We'll get a good series, if Lidge doesn't blow it......again.
posted by red_kal_el at 03:32 AM on October 25, 2005
The league should prevent the Astros from using their roof to gain competitive advantage. They should follow the same procedures they did in the regular season.
posted by rcade at 05:18 AM on October 25, 2005
Yeah, what rcade said. A retractable roof should only be closed if weather is a consideration. What's next, opening it only half way to create the shadows they think would benefit their team? They should be required to announce what the team's intentions are regarding the roof prior to the Series games. What's next, outfield walls on wheels to be able to move closer or farther away depending on the situation?
posted by dyams at 07:02 AM on October 25, 2005
The league should prevent the Astros from using their roof to gain competitive advantage. They should follow the same procedures they did in the regular season. During the regular season the astros could do as they wanted it was their choice to open or close it,so I agree they should do as they did in the regular season.
Well, I think MLB should shave 20 some games off the regular season and play the World Series at a reasonable time of year. I think it is ridiculous that teams have to play with long sleeves, gloves, etc. The WS should be over by now. They are the Boys of Summer afterall. Oh, and what rcade said.
posted by scully at 08:07 AM on October 25, 2005
Funny to hear bravesfan talking about somebody ELSE'S fans being annoying!!! Umm...and that "tomahawk" thing isn't?
posted by Bury Bonds at 08:12 AM on October 25, 2005
Frankly, I think that it's annoying to sit at home watching a game, and you can't even hear the commentators because of all the noise from the fans. Not to say they shouldn't cheer, etc., but it's obvious that they are trying to rattle the opposing team...is this the only way that the Astros can win? Bravesfan, I thought the whole deal with home field advantage, in any sport, has to do with the fans being as loud as they can to support their team. It sounds like to me that it happens everywhere but Atlanta. I like the fact that you can't hear at Minute Maid Park. It shows that a city is all about rooting for the home team. I wouldn't watch the game tonight if you don't want to hear tons of screaming fans, because this could be the loudest game in history. And to answer your question, The Astros are 7 - 5 in the postseason and 3 out of 7 wins come on the road. With all that said, we still have to have better relief pitching to win so we'll see what happens! Let's go 'Stros!
posted by tb_mitchell at 08:13 AM on October 25, 2005
According to this article, during the season the Astros would open or close the roof based on whether the temperate was above 80 degrees, except when rain prompted it to be closed. The decision wasn't made to close the roof for home field advantage until this year's playoffs. Frankly, the more I hear Houston and its fans defend this stunt, the gladder I'll be if they lose the Series. This roof trick is bush league.
posted by rcade at 08:22 AM on October 25, 2005
Frankly, I think that it's annoying to sit at home watching a game, and you can't even hear the commentators because of all the noise from the fans. Actually, wouldn't it be nice if it was so deafening we couldn't hear a word McGarver has to say? I say close the roof and provide free beer for the fans!
posted by willthrill72 at 08:42 AM on October 25, 2005
White Sox in five. Gotta let them win one game.
posted by qwadad1 at 08:47 AM on October 25, 2005
I am not an astros fan ,and your article is not the point ,the point I was making was that the roof was their decision to open or close during the regular season( and although whether was somtimes a determining factor it was not always)so why not the post season ,every field or park has quirks that are advantages to the home team(incuding weather)closing the top should not be a problem to ANYONE a feild is a field and these are pro's playing the game not bushleaguers
Since when did "home field advantage" come to mean "distracting and overwhelming crowd noise"? I always thought it meant being in your own locker room, in your home city (so you're sleeping in your own bed and not in a hotel), on your own field whose quirks you know better than the other guys do -- and, yes, with your own fans so you do hear more cheers, see more signs for you, and get to see a celebration that's all about you as you drive home (if you win). But the crowd noise thing has gone too far when crowds attempt to disrupt play with it (much more effective in football than in baseball, but as granddad used to say, this isn't a competition to see who's the worst).
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:03 AM on October 25, 2005
Its Houston's roof; let them do whatever they want with it. Its called homefield advantage for a reason because its their field.
posted by bkahuna6705 at 09:05 AM on October 25, 2005
oh and by the way football teams pull stunts like this with their fields all the time in the playoffs, my beloved patriots do it, it's not bush league it's sport advantage home...
if your crowd isnt loud enough to overwhelm the other team, you dont have real fans.
posted by bkahuna6705 at 09:11 AM on October 25, 2005
LBB the "fans" are as much a part of any sport as the players on the field(any field)if you dont get that then youve missed the "beauty" of the home game. Disruption of the visiting team by the hometown crowd is an intergral part of sport,I cant imagine having to be restrained from screaming to give the visting team courtesy.
I can't imagine spending a full nine innings screaming in public and still being able to believe myself a part of civilized society. But that's me.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:35 AM on October 25, 2005
when go to a organized sporting event and you are a real fan, you are no longer a part of civilization, you are a part of the team, and it is your obligation to scream your lungs out until the last out.
posted by bkahuna6705 at 09:41 AM on October 25, 2005
I cant imagine having to be restrained from screaming to give the visting team courtesy. I can't imagine you and the word "restraint" in the same sentence, dead600.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:42 AM on October 25, 2005
The best time I ever had at a live sporting event was screaming at the Lakers at Reunion Arena in Dallas in game 6 of the Western Conference Finals in 1988. We were so loud the announcers gave the crowd half of the MVP of the game (making my share 1/34,014th of the award). Mark Aguirre got the other half.
posted by rcade at 09:46 AM on October 25, 2005
Since when did "home field advantage" come to mean "distracting and overwhelming crowd noise"? I'm not sure it does and I also don't think home field advantage should include fans slapping an opposing player's wife, as happened to Biggio's on Sunday night in Chicago.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:51 AM on October 25, 2005
We were so loud the announcers gave the crowd half of the MVP of the game Which is a nice change from the deafening silence of corporate ticket holders at most big events nowadays.
posted by yerfatma at 09:51 AM on October 25, 2005
MLB has absolutely NO business getting their opinions in this one. It was built as a dome for many reasons as are all the others and one reason is for home field noise advantage. After all, it should be made an even playing field, Sox have the Umps on their side and the Astros should have the dome on theirs. Noise is amazingly different between inside domes and the outside stadiums and the fact that MLB is sticking themselves in this has the power to taint this series as much as the officiating already has.
posted by melcarek69 at 09:53 AM on October 25, 2005
I can't imagine you and the word "restraint" in the same sentence, dead600 I cant imagine having the audacity to believe that you know someone from 60 posts, on and internet website but say la vie...
who the hell does that tupeed headed asshole of selig and the rest of the powers that be (umpires) think they are the gods of baseball???? this is getting way out of hand the astros own the field and they have do the whims of that j--ko-f selig!! let them close the roof and if the asshole fans start their hanky waving thunder stick b---sh-t OPEN THE ROOF before someone gets really hurt Aka; sheffield and crosby against the angles!!!!!
posted by FrankySP at 10:18 AM on October 25, 2005
who the hell does that tupeed headed asshole of selig and the rest of the powers that be (umpires) think they are the gods of baseball???? Yeah, probably. And they're not far off.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2005
La vie.
posted by yerfatma at 11:12 AM on October 25, 2005
La vie. You said it!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:19 AM on October 25, 2005
Wow I love you guys(and girls) ,really it's not personal just like the fun and excitement of a good arguement,nothing like stirring up those competitive jucies..comon live and let live,bygons be bygons all tht jazz
While I think it's stupid to play baseball under a dome when temperatures are mild and there's not rain, I don't think MLB should dictate whether the dome stays open or not. If the Astros want to shut it down because they think it gives them an edge, it's their field - they can do what they want. While not to the same extent, teams have always customized their fields to benefit the home team by doing things like altering the angle of the foul lines, moving the fences, and keeping the grass long/short depending on the strengths of the club. So, MLB, stay out of this. These two clubs will play a tight game with or without the roof. And, who says that the White Sox don't play well in a loud, hostile stadium anyway? They had the best road record in the AL, maybe all of baseball...
posted by ChiSox1977 at 11:45 AM on October 25, 2005
really it's not personal just like the fun and excitement of a good arguement Sorry, dead600, what you've shown me so far in your 60+ posts isn't a "good argument", it's plain and simple slagging off. Show me a "good argument" and I'll respect you plenty.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:49 AM on October 25, 2005
MLB has no valid position here. Why weren't the Braves and Cardinals afforded the same consideration as the White Sox?
posted by cl at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2005
Houston PUT the roof over baseball, folks! Why now, at this last moment, is there suddenly debate over it? When it was 45, gusty and raining (typical Chicago Fall weather before it becomes the frozen tundra beside the lake) MLB decided this little annoyance was not enough to stop the game—even if it cost the Astros’ arms some well-developed control that is generally there in ‘normal’ weather conditions for baseball. Let’s face it: that was football weather! The Roof over baseball is Houston’s signature to the game. Remember, if you will, that at one time professional baseball all but refused to come and play in Houston because of the heat, humidity, rain and mosquitoes that plagued its outfield. Forty years later, with all of those considerations properly dealt with, why penalize the team for the conditions they were long ago forced to develop? Close the roof, amp up the Killer-Bee Buzz, and let’s play some ball!
posted by Texwriter at 12:08 PM on October 25, 2005
How is crowd noise any consideration in this arguement? If they had just built a dome it would be closed all the time anyways so why is crowd noise a big deal now that they close it?
posted by tron7 at 12:10 PM on October 25, 2005
Please let them close the damn roof, let these two great teams play the game. White Sox will win either way. MLB has no business telling Houston what they can do with their own field. Give the Astros their hump in center field, give them their left field wall, and give them thier closed roof. I am tired of hearing excuses for why the Chi Sox are putting an ass kicking on every team throughout the year and throughout the playoffs. I don't need to hear it anymore. Their are no excuses for a 9-1 record in the playoffs and a 99-63 record in the regular season. This is a damn good team, bad calls or not. Garland is shutting them down tonight, either way WHITE SOX WINNERS!!!
posted by Jeffro71984 at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2005
Sorry, dead600, what you've shown me so far in your 60+ posts isn't a "good argument", it's plain and simple slagging off. Show me a "good argument" and I'll respect you plenty Sorry you feel that way,I tried to be civil,and if you feel i havent done anything but slagged off,we all no what opinions are like,and i seemed to have silenced you on more than one occation,so give me something more than a character attack,lets talk about sports
I am tired of hearing excuses for why the Chi Sox are putting an ass kicking on every team throughout the year the didnt put an ass kicking on the red sox during the year,if i recall we split. but they did whip us good in the post season,great pitching
Its Houston's roof; let them do whatever they want with it. MLB has absolutely NO business getting their opinions in this one. it's their field - they can do what they want. MLB has no valid position here. MLB has no business telling Houston what they can do with their own field. Man, I feel totally outshouted here. You guys do realize that the World Series is an MLB event, and not actually administered by the White Sox and Astros organizations, right? MLB wants to showcase their big event as they see fit. If the Astros want total control of a championship series, they should form their own league.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:43 PM on October 25, 2005
and i seemed to have silenced you on more than one occation Probably with your audacious spelling.
posted by tron7 at 12:48 PM on October 25, 2005
what does audacity have to do with my spelling, go study your english..putz
tron7: I think you meant atrocious. Perhaps you aren't in the best position to point fingers. Like the fans going to see White Sox games in late October, chill people. As it has been pointed out, Houston and Chicago do not run MLB. This is MLB's gig and, like it or not, they can tell the Astros to open the roof. Complaining about it just sounds like sour grapes. Games are won or lost on the field. You hit the ball, you throw the ball, you catch the ball. Besides, roofs on stadiums are silly.
posted by scully at 01:14 PM on October 25, 2005
au·da·cious ( ô-dā ' shəs ) adj. Fearlessly, often recklessly daring; bold. Doh! at least i speled it correctly.
posted by tron7 at 01:19 PM on October 25, 2005
While I had the same immediate reaction as terrapin, I like "audacious" better than "atrocious". It's less judgemental and suggests there's an actual method to the madness. Richard Justice raises the roof.
posted by yerfatma at 01:23 PM on October 25, 2005
It's MLB's gig, but there are some legit complaints about how it's being handled. I don't much care about the roof, given that you've taken the weak and worthless step of having one in the first place in Texas, no less, but I do think the complaints about the length of the playoffs are legit. For heaven's sake, it's October 25th, we're only two games into the World Series, and it's snowing here in the northeastern US. Given that expansion made the Central Division necessary, they had to add a round to the playoffs, but they didn't have to add so many games. Time was, the Pennant was the first round, it was five games long, and the Series was seven as it is now. Basically, they added a week's worth of playoffs plus travel days to the schedule, making it by my count ten days more than what they used to have. Doesn't make sense. Three games for division series, five games for pennant, seven games for World Series, done.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:24 PM on October 25, 2005
I like atrocious better. It's more judgemental and suggests no method to the madness.
posted by tron7 at 01:27 PM on October 25, 2005
where would the MLB be without its fans. if the fans want it closed have it closed, if they want it open leave it open. if the MLB wants to make things "fair" they should put a freakin salary cap so the richest team in the league doesnt get all the "star" players. lol. yankees suck. they cant even win with all of their high paid "stars"
posted by bkahuna6705 at 01:33 PM on October 25, 2005
If the Astros want total control of a championship series, they should form their own league. Wouldn't that be great. Unfortunately, MLB is exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act and operates as a court-protected monopoly. So Houston couldn't do that without the help of Congress, could it?
posted by cl at 01:48 PM on October 25, 2005
With the exception of worldcup2002, I think I am just going to avoid reading anything by any user who has a number in their nick. :)
posted by scully at 02:07 PM on October 25, 2005
I would think the decision to close the roof should go to Minute Maid. After all, it's their stadium.
posted by smithnyiu at 02:28 PM on October 25, 2005
the white sox can't control the weather or environment- not their fault MLB extends the post-season into winter, so the astros should not be able to control the weather or environment either. denver has a distinct advantage too, but the MPB isn't making them build a pressurized dome to bring the atmosphere down to sea level. they do make the rockies humidify the balls though. this is a tempest in a teapot. play ball!
posted by irunfromclones at 02:29 PM on October 25, 2005
the white sox can't control the weather or environment- not their fault MLB extends the post-season into winter, so the astros should not be able to control the weather or environment either. denver has a distinct advantage too, but the MLB isn't making them build a pressurized dome to bring the atmosphere down to sea level. they do make the rockies humidify the balls though. this is a tempest in a teapot. play ball!
posted by irunfromclones at 02:29 PM on October 25, 2005
It's MLB's gig, but there are some legit complaints about how it's being handled. Are there? "If it's a nice day and no chance of precipitation and it's not overly hot and humid, yeah, we'll open the roof" didn't sound like an overly problematic approach. The "this isn't their game" comment from Brad Ausmus wasn't exactly diplomatic though.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:35 PM on October 25, 2005
Denver's distinct advantage is scaring off every free agent pitcher with any brains at all, miring the Rockies in the cellar for most of their history. I love Coors Field, which is the best place I've seen a game in person, but home field advantage it ain't.
posted by rcade at 02:36 PM on October 25, 2005
With the exception of worldcup2002, I think I am just going to avoid reading anything by any user who has a number in their nick. :) I resemble that remark.
posted by fabulon7 at 02:53 PM on October 25, 2005
Who actually removes comments? They could at least have removed my audacious/atrocious error as long as they were taking out all of dead600's(including aliases) comments. Just a thought.
posted by tron7 at 03:03 PM on October 25, 2005
Back on topic, I think MLB has every right to actually make them open the roof but I don't see why they would want to. If Baseball wanted to make things "fair" they should play it at a neutral site. Isn't the whole idea of homefield advantage to make things unfair?
posted by tron7 at 03:05 PM on October 25, 2005
In a $ driven sport, this comment makes no sense: " I think MLB should shave 20 some games off the regular season and play the World Series at a reasonable time of year. "...
You do realize the economic implications of this, don't you? I do not think the Player's association would back this idea up, since they would seriously have to take major pay-cuts to make this happen!
posted by zippinglou at 03:06 PM on October 25, 2005
In a $ driven sport, this comment makes no sense: " I think MLB should shave 20 some games off the regular season and play the World Series at a reasonable time of year. "... $ and tradition driven. I think it would be hard to get off the 162, maybe 154 again?
posted by tron7 at 03:17 PM on October 25, 2005
MLB has no valid position here. Why weren't the Braves and Cardinals afforded the same consideration as the White Sox? Because when you're a wild card team you need all of the help that you can get.
posted by budman13 at 06:12 PM on October 25, 2005
Opened...closed...it shouldn't matter. Let's play ball.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 06:17 PM on October 25, 2005
It's my understanding that the roof issue is actually being driven by Fox. They want the roof open for aerial shots from the blimp. Fox pays hundreds of millions of dollars for coverage rights to MLB. They want it open. MLB says sure, no problem deep pockets. The Astros complain, but Fox lines the pockets of many in baseball for coverage, including the players. When its all over, and the champion is crowned, everyone involved, MLB, owners, players, all will be after more money, and Fox (or another network that would have probably wanted the roof open) will be a major provider of that buck. The almighty dollar rules in America.
posted by Shoalbaby at 06:55 PM on October 25, 2005
I can't imagine spending a full nine innings screaming in public and still being able to believe myself a part of civilized society. But that's me. Well, yeah ... but we go to games in Toronto. It's akin to attending a church service -- for the deaf.
posted by wfrazerjr at 07:30 PM on October 25, 2005
I do not think the Player's association would back this idea up, since they would seriously have to take major pay-cuts to make this happen! I think the Player's Association would love it, but they wouldn't be thinking about pay cuts. They get paid for a season's worth of work, not a per diem.
posted by yerfatma at 07:34 PM on October 25, 2005
Well, yeah ... but we go to games in Toronto. It's akin to attending a church service -- for the deaf. you guys do seem to get excited over the prospect of a free slice of pizza! pizza! though.
posted by goddam at 07:48 PM on October 25, 2005
That seven-strikeout deal is perhaps the best promotional offer I've ever encountered. Mmm.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 08:42 PM on October 25, 2005
As I watch Game 3, now in the top of the fifth with the Pale Hose opening up a can on Oswalt, I'm thinking: That kid Lane didn't actually hit a home run in the bottom of the fourth, he hit a double, and a sliding one at that...three games, all of which will be talked about in the context of blown calls; that damn Crede, he might end up being MVP; Oswalt has looked nervous all night long. I haven't seen him much this year, so I don't know if he always looks mildly scared when he's pitching, but he sure does tonight, and even though he pitched a decent game through four innings, he never looked dominating to me, and now the Chisox have taken the lead; It's getting harder to deny the Sox' destiny this year, just like it became hard to deny my beloved Red Sox' destiny last year; I'm beating Weedy not only in the CFL pick 'em, but also in the SpoFi hockey league. I'm just sayin'.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:16 PM on October 25, 2005
Again, let's reiterate the REASON they want the roof closed...it's admittedly to throw off the opposing team's concentration and equilibrium (quoted by Ensberg himself) with all the yelling, as it is much louder with it closed...no one is saying the fans shouldn't make noise and support their team, but to use tactics to make it above the normal sound level is ridiculous. And unfortunately, this concern by the MLB "powers that be" comes a little late for the Cards and the Braves, as I'm sure it was the NLCS game with the Cards that brought it so blatantly to their attention (however, when Pujols hit that homerun - still wondering if the ball was ever found - it quieted them down a little). And with respect to Bury Bonds' comment about the tomahawk chop ... it is a short-term rally gesture from the fans...it doesn't carry on for the entire inning .... been to the games at Turner Field as well as watching on TV, and they usually last for about 6-8 chops....
posted by bravesfan at 09:29 PM on October 25, 2005
I'm way more upset about that dipshit home run line on the wall and the dumbass hill than I am about what they do with the roof.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:48 PM on October 25, 2005
And with respect to [...] the tomahawk chop ... it is a short-term rally gesture from the fans...it doesn't carry on for the entire inning .... been to the games at Turner Field as well as watching on TV, and they usually last for about 6-8 chops.... Yeah, it's just, I still can't get it out of my head from when it lasted throughout the early 90's. Damn that was annoying.
posted by cl at 01:33 AM on October 26, 2005
Oh, and 86 too. worldcup2002, and 86.
posted by scully at 08:37 AM on October 26, 2005
Well, yeah ... but we go to games in Toronto. It's akin to attending a church service -- for the deaf. Fans are quiet there because they're watching people having sex in the stadium hotel.
posted by rcade at 09:15 AM on October 26, 2005
I like the Globe and Mail's recap of the game: The Astros, most of them being adults, shrugged off the disappointment of the open roof and came up with a first-inning run. Also, I can't stand the yellow home run line either.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:34 AM on October 26, 2005
It stinks of legal-ification of Our Modern Age (to be an old fogey for 15 seconds): home runs should be something obvious to all, e.g., "Hey, that ball went over that wall back there. I don't see it anymore." Instead we have a line and committee meetings about what constitutes a home run. And fuck that park in Tampa Bay too.
posted by yerfatma at 11:13 AM on October 26, 2005
Any bunch of Little Leaguers knows what a home run is, it's when an outfielder has to hop the fence to get the ball back. Lines on the wall are for squash, not baseball.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:42 AM on October 26, 2005
You're not alone, yerfatma.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:53 AM on October 26, 2005
That seven-strikeout deal is perhaps the best promotional offer I've ever encountered. Mmm. I'd agree, Doc, if the pizza didn't taste like ass. I like their other promotion better. Buy a pizza and get free Raptors tickets. Christ, what would you have to buy to get free Lakers tickets -- a Cessna?
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:07 PM on October 26, 2005
Frankly, MLB should not decide what the Astros should do! I would think that MLB would decide quite a lot of what the Astros do, being the whole reason for the Astros' existence and all.