11/05/24
March 17, 2004
Meet the new Boston Red Green Sox: Extending the St. Patrick's Day tradition of wearing a green cap on the high Irish "holiday", the Red Sox are wearing green jerseys today as well. Fans can buy their own jersey retail, they are sure to be popular with Boston's heavy Irish population. From what I've heard, after the game, all the authentic players' jerseys will be collected and auctioned off for charity.
posted by jerseygirl to baseball at 01:15 PM - 56 comments
For those ignorant of certain customs associated with today(or hung over from a pre-St.Pats celebration), do not, I repeat, do not wear orange today. This PSA brought to you by one ostracized co-worker.
posted by garfield at 01:40 PM on March 17, 2004
Fans can buy their own jersey retail, they are sure to be popular with Boston's heavy Irish population What, they're only making them in 2XLarge?
posted by deadcowdan at 02:29 PM on March 17, 2004
This PSA brought to you by one ostracized co-worker. Sincerely, Ian Paisley.
posted by yerfatma at 02:35 PM on March 17, 2004
What the fuck is it with Americans and their barmy Irish romanticism? Most of those celebrating St. Patrick's Day have as their main claim to be Irish the fact that they once drank a pint of Guinness...
posted by salmacis at 04:10 PM on March 17, 2004
Paternal grandparents, right off the boat. Do I pass your inspection sir?
posted by jerseygirl at 04:19 PM on March 17, 2004
Er, no. By the same token, that would make me Welsh-English. Since I was born in England, and lived all my life in England, that makes me English. I only support Wales when they beat anyone (except England) at rugby. :-)
posted by salmacis at 04:34 PM on March 17, 2004
salmacis, I've almost come to blows while trying to explain to people(both her parents immigrated) not from Ireland that they aren't Irish(but rather Irish-American). Seems like a weird discussion to be so heated, but in the great melting pot, clinging to identity is common. But whatever. My favorite St.Pats memory for this year is a radio spot for a a beer: Top 10 things you won't hear the Irish say on St.Pats. I don't remember all of them, but #1 is sweet: "Aye, the Americans are right. We should just call it soccer." That killed me.
posted by garfield at 04:39 PM on March 17, 2004
As a pure-bred (I'll never think of you the same way again, jersey) Irish-American, I tend to agree with you salmacis. Especially given the loudest mouths have the most tenuous connections.
posted by yerfatma at 05:48 PM on March 17, 2004
What the fuck is it with Americans and their barmy Irish romanticism? Ah, relax. I'm 0% Irish, but I'm wearing a bright green shirt that says "kiss me, I'm Irish." Dinner tonight will consist of several Tom Collins, drunk with a motley group of non-Irishmen belting out quickly-learned Irish folk songs. In other words, it's a pardtee, me wee stiff English lad, would you care to dance?
posted by dusted at 06:25 PM on March 17, 2004
Bah with the hyphenated PC appellations. Dusted wins.
posted by pivo at 08:01 PM on March 17, 2004
I'll never think of you the same way again, jersey hey! why!?
posted by jerseygirl at 08:59 PM on March 17, 2004
What the fuck is it with Americans and their barmy Irish romanticism? I'm Irish, have spent a lot of time in Ireland, and I've drank MANY pints of Guinness. I have a right! Seriously...relax. ;)
posted by justgary at 09:04 PM on March 17, 2004
i've drank many pints of guinness as well (some of which were consumed tonight). however, i've never been to ireland. i'm not even close to being irish. i'm armenian. but i did have a lovely conversation with a man from kilkenny tonight. does that count for anything?
posted by goddam at 11:57 PM on March 17, 2004
goddam: Watch out Brian Kerr doesn't select you for the next Ireland international...
posted by salmacis at 02:49 AM on March 18, 2004
I've been drunk before. Does that count?
posted by rocketman at 08:39 AM on March 18, 2004
One of my favorite bits of between song patter is from Phil Lynott on Live and Dangerous when he innocently asks the girls in the audience if they'd "like a little Irish in them." Does that count?
posted by billsaysthis at 09:47 AM on March 18, 2004
I've been drunk before. Does that count? And they said the bar couldn't be lowered in here.
posted by yerfatma at 11:43 AM on March 18, 2004
Jersey with the trifecta on posts. Sweet. Back on topic, this is an effective marketing strategy. It's fairly obvious that fans eat this kind of shit up. Back off topic. Never deny a person their heritage just because they didn't grow up in their forbears native land or because they don't speak the language. It's offensive. Hyphen, no hyphen, it doesn't matter. Just because you didn't grow up there, or speak the language doesn't make you any less African, Mexican, Chinese, Turkish, etc. If I hear one more person say, " You're not really _____ 'cause you didn't grow up there/don't speak the language." Gets a knuckle sammich.
posted by lilnemo at 12:29 PM on March 18, 2004
Never deny a person their heritage just because they didn't grow up in their forbears native land or because they don't speak the language. It's offensive. thank you nemo. those are the sentiments i had yesterday, exactly.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:40 PM on March 18, 2004
Thank God it's March 18. Now we can stop acting like we actually wanted to be drunken, potato-eating louts. /scotsman
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:23 PM on March 18, 2004
Never deny a person their heritage just because they didn't grow up in their forbears native land or because they don't speak the language......Just because you didn't grow up there, or speak the language doesn't make you any less_______ I would never deny anyone their heritage, but the simple fact is not being from (born/raised/formative years/majority of life) somewhere makes you less from there than someone who is actually from there, and that people actually from there think you are an outsider. Heritage or no Heritage, its about defining the 'other' which involves defining what isn't 'other.' Enjoy your delusion if you like, as it really doesn't matter, except when you call yourself Irish in Ireland.
posted by garfield at 05:46 PM on March 18, 2004
From Merriam Webster: Main Entry: Irish Pronunciation: 'I-rish Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from (assumed) Old English Irisc, from Iras Irishmen, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish Ériu Ireland 1 plural in construction : natives or inhabitants of Ireland or their descendants especially when of Celtic speech or culture 2 a : the Celtic language of Ireland especially as used since the later medieval period b : English spoken by the Irish 3 : IRISH WHISKEY - Irish adjective I'm not going to split hairs. there is no slide scale for "ethnic-ness". But it does rather remind me of Eddie Izzard describing the European Dream in "Dress to Kill". "I dreamed the European Dream, that we all talked in different languages and no one liked each other.... that's true isn't it?" There is something strange about the European fear of the "other". I'm guessing it has more to do with class and nationalism than direct descendants. Nonetheless, I find it rather odd that a region would divorce itself from it's own descendants. My forebears originate from both Mexico, and England and they themselves come from more diverse backgrounds than that. I do not hesitate to call myself part hispanic/british. Maybe thats just how we are here in America. It's truly odd. I've been told many times that I'm "not mexican" solely because I have light skin. Never mind that a great deal of hispanics are, in fact, light skinned. btw: I would never deny anyone their heritage, but the simple fact is not being from (born/raised/formative years/majority of life) somewhere makes you less from there than someone who is actually from there, and that people actually from there think you are an outsider. Heritage or no Heritage, its about defining the 'other' which involves defining what isn't 'other.' Enjoy your delusion if you like, as it really doesn't matter, except when you call yourself Irish in Ireland. Nice emphasis there, way to be ethnocentric.
posted by lilnemo at 06:14 PM on March 18, 2004
the bold was supposed to be on all the 'you's that's all that is....emphasis on this being a universal question. And European fear? Who's being ethnocentric? But whatever. I don't think you get my point. Everyone identifies themselves through ancestry. Like I said, I would never deny someone their heritage. But everyone also identifies themselves by the present. And naturally everyone idenitifies everyone else by the same criteria. People obviously like to differentiate themselves with a preference for the past, for practical reasons, but from a global perspective the descriptor is, well, inadequate. Go to Mexico or the British Isles, and introduce yourself as either English or Mexican, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
posted by garfield at 10:53 PM on March 18, 2004
Enjoy your delusion if you like What the hell? Delusion? Most people who celebrate St. Patricks Day realize they're not actually Irish. If family came from Ireland, celebrating that fact is not delusion. When I went to Ireland to check out my roots I certainly didn't introduce myself as Irish. I'm fully aware of the difference between being born/living in Ireland and having descendants from Ireland. I never realized that a day of celebration of one's ancestry would actually offend people.
posted by justgary at 11:57 PM on March 18, 2004
I never realized that a day of celebration of one's ancestry would actually offend people. Apparently so. :( ...the bold was supposed to be on all the 'you's that's all that is... My mistake, since you had quoted my text I thought you were referring to me specifically. ;) I don't think you get my point. No, I do. I just don't agree. That is possible no? :) People obviously like to differentiate themselves with a preference for the past, for practical reasons, but from a global perspective the descriptor is, well, inadequate. Go to Mexico or the British Isles, and introduce yourself as either English or Mexican, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I don't see how taking a poll will answer whether I'm English or Mexican enough to be considered either. And I don't see why I should have to ask someone else to define what I am. Besides, when people from either of said nationalities have met me they always assume that I belong to the other race. In the same vein there are some people who may be "natives" in their homeland but have no sense of their culture. Here in Los Angeles, I have met several newly naturalized citizens who are more American and patriotic than the majority of the U.S. population will ever be. But that is neither here nor there. I just don't like the idea of someone getting upset just because someone else wants to celebrate and embrace their culture. I hope you can understand where I am coming from; but if not, I think we can all agree to disagree. I thank you for your insight. *hugs* *pees in corner* *runs*
posted by lilnemo at 01:02 AM on March 19, 2004
You asked me to: Garfield, you're being a combative ass. And worse, over something ridiculously trivial. And now you've basically called me delusional, which irritates me. But I am late for work, so I'll talk to you later.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:20 AM on March 19, 2004
you're right, jersey. thanks. it's a controversial subject, and I started with a provocative comment. but combative I was not. "Delusion" probably carries with it a connotation most find unappealling (sorry everyone), but as humans we delude ourselves on a regular basis. I know I do. Either way, I regret painting others with such a nasty brush. lilnemo, I hear you about not liking someone to get upset/offended about this type of thing. I'm not upset, just trying to point out something. justgary illustrates all i was trying to say: When I went to Ireland to check out my roots I certainly didn't introduce myself as Irish. That's all. I suppose context has alot to do with word choice and I probably should've left it at that. Unfortunately, I have a weird metaphysical fetish stemming from making table candles.
posted by garfield at 08:40 AM on March 19, 2004
I don't think anyone goes around proclaiming themselves an actual denizen of Ireland when they say "I'm part Irish". We all know the difference between "I am from Ireland" and "My heritage is of Ireland" when someone proclaims themselves Irish. No one has ever asked what "i am" and then, after hearing Irish, said "Geez, you don't even have a brogue!". It's understood. I'm from the United States, my heritage is, in part, that of Ireland. Jesus, don't ever get into an argument with someone of Jewish heritage about them not actually being Jewish because they aren't from Mesopotamia. I think you're being WAY too nitpicky over something that is a tremendous non-issue and not at all controversial.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:19 AM on March 19, 2004
Jesus, don't ever get into an argument with someone of Jewish heritage about them not actually being Jewish because they aren't from Mesopotamia. I like that sentence better without the comma. Either way, I've had the same discussion with my girlfriend on this topic and my feeling is the two concepts are not analagous. There's more to being Jewish than a longitude and latitude constraint.
posted by yerfatma at 10:58 AM on March 19, 2004
I don't think anyone goes around proclaiming themselves an actual denizen of Ireland when they say "I'm part Irish". case in point - People often don't include the 'part'. of course context is relevant. I know justgary was saying he is of Irish descent. But to a true Irish person, and we all know what I mean by that, he/she may not get that, or s/he may take offense. I was just trying to expand the scope and get people to think about who they are in relation to the global community. we are on the worldwideweb.
posted by garfield at 11:13 AM on March 19, 2004
I'd also like to add that having moved back and forth between Canada and the U.S. has learned me a thing or two about how people define themselves, and how important it is to one's identity. Even with just the subtleties between to two cultures, I'm not Canadian in Canada, and I'm not American in the U.S. despite the fact that I have Canadian citizenship and have lived for more years in the U.S. I know who I am, but how others perceive you is quite relevant.
posted by garfield at 11:33 AM on March 19, 2004
It's funnier without the comment. But to a true Irish person, and we all know what I mean by that, he/she may not get that, or s/he may take offense. Are people really getting upset over this? Are the Irelanders (etc.) all up in a tizzy because Americans (specifically) are, by recognizing their ancestory and referencing their heritage, making reference to being in parts or whole, as Irish? Or is it more of a pre-emptive exercise in politically correctness? I know who I am, but how others perceive you is quite relevant. And I know who I am too. Most people have a concept of who they are, even in the global perspective. What people don't like is someone pointing to them in regards to their self-identity and saying, "You' should be defined as X because this is how I think you should be rightfully categorized." It sounds Hitler-y. “He said he was a donut!” “I thought he said he was a donut too!” “So what does that mean?” “It’s a slang! It’s American! He’s a donut! He’s a fucking donut." I am a Frankfurter!
posted by jerseygirl at 12:27 PM on March 19, 2004
"...I am a Hamburger too..."
posted by lilnemo at 12:42 PM on March 19, 2004
"...in heels as well..."
posted by lilnemo at 12:42 PM on March 19, 2004
i love that.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:54 PM on March 19, 2004
It's all about placement. and finally... "We've been ready for monsters, haven't we? We've been looking them for sooo looong. But we haven't found any. Not even a squirrel with a flute. Monster! Very small monster! Take his flute, its the source of his power!" Speaking of squirrels. I think I found the one that was using Eddie's lipstick.
posted by lilnemo at 01:04 PM on March 19, 2004
its both: this is globalization 101, but, as much as globalization brings people together, there is an opposite and equal force that separates us, as being sucked into a larger community necessitates the need to cling to what you identify with (your tribal identity, if you will), which typically translates to what you do, where you do it, and who you do it with. (uh, huh huh) Also, people generally don't like it when an outsider assumes part of what they consider to be theirs. 'part'-______ shows tribute and respect to the original. "I'm Irish (for example)" can be interpretted as rude, presumptuous, arrogant, naive, colonial, etc. And to conclude, yes, people are getting upset over this. To think of this as such a black/white issue is outdated. Go travel. Go learn. Because until you come face to face with this, you'll never get it.
posted by garfield at 01:19 PM on March 19, 2004
I think the green Red Sox jerseys are way cool.
posted by rocketman at 01:21 PM on March 19, 2004
the hitler comment really pissed me off.
posted by garfield at 01:24 PM on March 19, 2004
And to conclude, yes, people are getting upset over this. I can't imagine why: ...people generally don't like it when an outsider assumes part of what they consider to be theirs... "I'm Irish (for example)" can be interpretted as rude, presumptuous, arrogant, naive, colonial, etc. all emphasis mine. I just want to get this straight. In a country built on immigrants, you're saying that their children who have been raised and educated in the ways of their forebears cannot claim their parents ethnic background? I can see not labelling yourself as another nationality on your passport, which is a seperate issue. But to disallow ones identity is repugnant. I've made it plain that I'm a mutt. And in that context, if a lion shagged a whippet I wouldn't call it either a lion or a whippet but would respect its right to say that its a lion or a whippet ( as technically, it is) rather than rail against it. Similarly I wouldn't say that I'm Just British, or Just Mexican, or Just _____. Because I'm not. But if Sean and Nancy move from Dublin to Houston and then have a child, I'm not going to be the one to tell their son Tom he's not Irish, are you?
posted by lilnemo at 01:40 PM on March 19, 2004
I think the green Red Sox jerseys are way cool. This is snark no? :) Vast ees dees snark?
posted by lilnemo at 01:43 PM on March 19, 2004
I don't feel the need to cling to anything to define myself. I have a pretty strong sense of who I am and it doesn't start and end with my family's ancestoral heritage, whether I am white, purple or polka dotted or where on the map I happen to be sitting at the very moment. I'll say this again, clearer: No one has claimed they are actually from Ireland because their great great-uncle Leroy was. Capiche? Both sets of my grandparents immigrated to this country, and struggled to make a way for themselves and their families. Because of what they did, I enjoy the life I live now. You'll have to excuse me if I choose to align myself with the heritages of which I came. But don't worry, I never once thought I was a resident of the continents of Europe and/or Asia. yes, people are getting upset over this. Just to recap... There was a post about Irish celebration in Boston (via Fort Myers) and then you got all up in everyone's face about it with redefinitions, and basically belittling them with "enjoy your delusions". Gee, I can't imagine why people are getting upset. Since I am being interpretted as so rude, presumptuous, arrogant, naive, colonial and obviously ridiculously fucking unworldly and unsophisticated, I'll go fuck off now.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:48 PM on March 19, 2004
lilnemo, thanks for trying to get at what I apparently can't articulate. jersey, you're Irish. But are you Irish to an Irish person? Irish and Irish have different meanings. I'm about as much of a mixed bag as they come. I could lay claim to heritages throughout Eurasia. I can say with certainty, based on surnames, that I'm (part-)German . Am I German to a German? No. Take if for what its worth. I think its an important distinction to make.....seeing as so much emotion is tied up in what we call ourselves.
posted by garfield at 02:50 PM on March 19, 2004
jg, I can tell you where this clown lives if you want. That or I can just beat him about the head and face with a turtle ashtray when he passes out. Your call.
posted by 86 at 03:23 PM on March 19, 2004
WSell jersey, you must be at least part Irish, 'cause you got the guilt trip thing down pat.
posted by yerfatma at 05:42 PM on March 19, 2004
i am canadian. in canada they celebrate st pat's day in a similar way to how it is celebrated in the states. I live in scotland. the Scots couldn't give half a haggis lick about st pat's day. i imagine that in the british isles the irish are the only ones entitled to (or perceived as such) celebrate st pat's day and it would be hard for folks here to imagine it being any other way (nationalism and sectarianism being in the mix for some people). i think the atlantic ocean plays a role. people in the new world treat their heritage a little differently. so I can't see what the fuss is about. it is a matter of perspective. happy march 19th.
posted by gspm at 05:46 PM on March 19, 2004
Garfield, the post of mine that you used to make a point was a sarcastic response to your little rant. I thought the part about being Irish because I drink "lots of guinness' would have made that clear. I find it hilarious (and offensive! ...damn stereotypes) that you condescendingly tell people to travel. Believe it or not there are americans who have travelled extensively, and through my travels I can tell you that thankfully you are in the minority. This is a non issue, and you are splitting hairs, and I have a sneaking suspicion that you're just having fun at our expense. Regardless, I'll let others argue with you from now on. As a favor, however, maybe you can get your preaching out completely this year, so that next year the St. Patricks Day thread will be more light hearted and not come off like a metafilter reject. Especially since this has nothing to do with sports, nor the original post, but with your own personal issues/agenda/demons. On topic, I like the green jerseys, and if I had extra money to blow I might even buy one. (NOT because I actually think I'm Irish! Don't want to defend anyone!)
posted by justgary at 11:13 PM on March 19, 2004
sorry for spewing the unpleasant reality on a day of celebration.
posted by garfield at 06:10 PM on March 20, 2004
jesus tapdancing christ, you don't know when to stop.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:52 PM on March 20, 2004
posted by lilnemo at 03:18 AM on March 21, 2004
that's him!
posted by jerseygirl at 08:11 AM on March 21, 2004
You're Irish. But are you Irish to an Irish person? (God, thats offensive, isn't it?!) bye spofi.
posted by garfield at 10:31 AM on March 22, 2004
drama! this could have been saved by an attempted invocation of Godwin's law at the appropriate point. Or not.
posted by gspm at 12:24 PM on March 22, 2004
Shut the fuck up , irish is boston and get used to it . Dont even talk about guinness that has nothing to do with anything. Get the fuck out of boston if you dont like the irish otherwise stop liking the red sox cause the red sox are IRISH. All you bastards who are mocking the irish you will burn in hell with your family you rat fucks.
posted by IrishRedSoxFan at 02:38 AM on October 18, 2004
Another way to rake in the $$$.