12/22/24
August 09, 2003
Would this move strengthen the Eastern Conference?: After signing Kidd, Harris and Mourning to multi-year deals it was pretty obvious that Kenyon was going to have to accept a bit less than the MAX. In lieu of that, doesn't this trade proposal look a bit one sided? Rasheed is just as prone to technicals as Kenyon, but is obviously a more skilled (if not taller) player. Sure, getting rid of Patterson would be nice, but its more likely that the Nets ask for Sabonis. Dikembe at this point is a throw-in with Mourning in NJ.
posted by lilnemo to basketball at 04:15 PM - 10 comments
Yeah I saw that and was surprised. He's making Kemp money! He's making Garnett bucks! Oops, bit of a waste that was. Is Kenyon worth a max contract?
posted by gspm at 05:17 AM on August 10, 2003
mutombo's contract is out of control....that's a straight up crime what he's making. as a net fan and someone who watches a good number of net games, i find kenyon to be somewhat of an overrated player.....he's extremelly athletic but lacks a lot of pure basketball skill. having him take a shot anywhere outside of 12 feet is an adventure....but he does bring the intangibles (i know, i know.....but if any sport has intangibles it's basketball) he's high energy and adds a bit roughneck flavor to keep opponents on their heels. with all that said if he winds up in portland you can rest assured that he'll self distruct......he's benefitted from playing with kidd bigtime (remember.....he was starting to look like bust city before kidd's arrrival) as a nets fan.....i'll take the trade.....rasheed will clean up at a higher clip in the east then kenyon.....and we could use a little more scoring.
posted by oliver_crunk at 09:46 AM on August 10, 2003
Mutumbo's contract was back-ended, he didn't make much his first couple of years to save the cap room. I don't know if this trade would make any difference for either team. They're pretty close players, talent wise.
posted by therev at 10:54 AM on August 10, 2003
I love both Martin and Wallace but I think the Nets will regret it if they let Martin go. Oliver, remember this, at Cincy Kenyon worked himself from a defensive specialist (all he did was block shots as a freshman) to the best offensive player in college basketball. Look at Martin's stats in the pros. He's improved every year in the league. At the end of last season he was saying he felt like "he had finally figured out how to play" in the NBA.
Looking at the progression of Martin's college career and how he was playing at the end of last season (maybe you forgot that for the last 2 months he was averaging 20pts/game) you would be insane to give up on him now. I know what you're saying about his "basketball skills" but when Martin is on he's simply unstopable. You can see a clear progression in his game. He can put the ball on the floor with his left and blow by people, he has his jump hooks, his jump shot is okay from about 18 feet. And he's developed almost all of that since arriving in the pros. You don't think that Martin's going to continue to improve?
Wallace, on the other hand, has the most unstoppable turnaround jump shot in the post, but he spends half of his time out by the 3pt line shooting jumpers, he's 6'10" but he only gets 7reb/game, and he's more of a headcase Martin. So I ask you, would you rather have a power forward, going into his 9th season, who doesn't like to play in the post. Or would you rather have the guy who works as hard as anyone in the NBA, who's improved every season, and is starting his 4th NBA season?
posted by Mike McD at 08:35 AM on August 11, 2003
You don't think that Martin's going to continue to improve? I think he can definetly improve but the type of improvment that you're talking about (pts per game at the end of last season) was more about the nets scoring problems than martin's improvment.......someone needed to score.....there's no offensive players on the nets. i think martin's offensive numbers benefitted more from van horn's absence than martin's improvement as an offensive player. (van horn's replacement: rich jeff.....now he's going to improve but he didn't pick up all the points that were lost with van horn's departure) martin gets most of his points from cleaning up on the offensive glass and fast breaks from kidd (he can run the floor better than anyone his size). his outside shooting hasn't improved and if you watch him long enough you wonder if he can improve it at all.....his jump shot is very flat and forced......he's a terrible shooter of the ball. As far as the post goes.....he's nowhere near the top players in the post.....he has a limited number of moves in the post....mostly going right to the elbow or the middle of the lane for a flat hook.....which could use improvement. I'm not giving up on him.....in fact he's the second biggest reason the nets have been succesfull....albeit a long second to kidd. I just don't see him as a superior offensive player and i think playing for the blazers would expose a lot of his flaws.....basically i want more offense for the nets. we have enough big boddies now with adding mourning......the single biggest reason we lost to the spurs was lack of scoring IMHO.....wallace will help that out eventhough as you point out he's much older......
posted by oliver_crunk at 10:28 AM on August 11, 2003
well....either way it doesn't look like kenyon is going anywhere (nyt link)
posted by oliver_crunk at 11:41 AM on August 11, 2003
the single biggest reason we lost to the spurs was lack of scoring IMHO I think the biggest reason the Net's lost to the Spurs was J. Kidd was injured. I will not debate this. No way Parker scores 20pts on a healthy Kidd. A whole bunch of things flowed from there. The main things being Kidd couldn't get the steals, reb, and deflections he normally does and he couldn't lead/trigger the break. i think martin's offensive numbers benefitted more from van horn's absence than martin's improvement as an offensive player. martin gets most of his points from cleaning up on the offensive glass and fast breaks from kidd. his outside shooting hasn't improved ... you wonder if he can improve it at all.....his jump shot is very flat and forced......he's a terrible shooter. Okay, I have to rise to K-marts defense. No one gets 20pts a game on clean-ups and fast breaks, not even close (think Ben Wallace). I think Martin's best move is driving left to the basket. He's so quick he can beat almost anyone. How much work do you think that takes for a right handed player to learn? He knows how to use the jump hook, either in the lane or off the glass. And you couldn't have watched K-mart develop in college and say that his shooting hasn't improved. Believe me, he didn't have a jump shot then, he does now. His J may not look like Jesus Shuttleworth's but neither did Jordan's (which was always a little flat). I'm suprised how little credit you give Martin for his improvement. If it's all Kidd how come Kidd couldn't improve Van Horn? Were you watching the Celtics series when Martin destroyed Walker. I just don't think a power forward who doesn't like to physical contact or playing in the post is going to help the Nets more than Martin.
posted by Mike McD at 01:49 PM on August 11, 2003
Okay, I may be going overboard but I get amped up when it comes to Martin. I'd like to add that Martin's style of play helps a team a lot more than Rasheed's. Martin is always attacking the basket, driving the ball, going for offensive rebounds. This results in lots of good things happening for the Nets, oppenents get tired, get in foul trouble, the Net's shoot a good fg%, teamates get easy rebounds (while opponents are focused on blocking out Martin), the Net's get more second chance points. Over time, the guy who gets all the offensive rebounds will help your team more than the guy taking 18 foot jump shots. Just look at how many FT Martin has taken the last 3 years (192,267,392) vs. (320, 274, 272) for Wallace. And the Spurs series. Yes, it was painful but the only thing that stopped Martin was foul trouble in the early games and the flu in the last two.
posted by Mike McD at 03:05 PM on August 11, 2003
Plus, he starts doing his speech impediment thing and scares the crap out of the other team.
posted by dusted at 03:23 PM on August 11, 2003
NJ is too far away from Northern Cali's marijuana farms for those two to accept the trade. But WTF is up with Motumbo's salary?!?!?!