11/21/24
May 04, 2003
Manchester United clinches: their 8th Premiership title in eleven seasons. Arsenal drops a match to Leeds at home thereby putting themselves out of the running.
But it was decided on the field. It just happened some did it earlier than others. Arsenal didn't beat Man U when they should have, drew with relegation strugglers Bolton last week, and then lost to another relegation struggler Leeds today, a team they should have soundly beaten. Looks like I called this one. btw, does this mean I don't have to do my weekly EPL report any more?
posted by worldcup2002 at 04:40 PM on May 04, 2003
Well, I'm sorry Leeds didn't get dragged into the relegation battle all the way to the end, but all credit to them, they beat those losers Arsenal and ensured another season of EPL play (now, it's up to Ernst & Young to save their financial hides). The relegation battle being left to West Ham or Bolton, I can't say I'd be happy to see either go down. I guess I'd rather West Ham stayed just 'cause I'm more used to seeing them in the EPL. Then again, it'd be nice to see Bowyer lose. That's about it. No rhyme or reason. I'm also sorry that Man Utd are champions. Tossers. And I'm most sorry that my boys Liverpool were beaten by Liverpool reject Anelka. Boy, Houllier must have loved getting his face rubbed in that one. Well, at least the Owen-Diouf-Baros combination looks promising. On to Chelsea! Now, I'm wondering: Since the only matches that really matter are Chelsea v Liverpool, Bolton v Middlesborough, and Birmingham v West Ham, do you think the other teams will just take the foot off the pedal (protect their best players for the summer sale, perhaps), and give us a bunch of weird results, like ... Everton (chance for UEFA) 5 Man U (champs) 0? Leeds (safe another season) 0 Villa (also safe) 10? Sunderland (last, worst EPL record ever, playing for pride) 2 Arsenal (runners-up) 0? West Brom (relegated) 4 Newcastle (3rd) 0?
posted by worldcup2002 at 04:52 PM on May 04, 2003
Bloody bleeding bastard Man U. Chelsea for the final Champs League spot and West Ham for the drop. If there's any justice in this world.
posted by squealy at 05:52 PM on May 04, 2003
Anelka, that tosser! But has ManU really won eight titles in 11 years? I didn't realize they were so dominant.
posted by billsaysthis at 09:36 PM on May 04, 2003
yeah, the championship is decided on the field in the obvious accumulation of season results but i guess, to me, it doesn't compare to the drama of a cup final or a playoff run or something like that. i'd like to see the winning team (Man U) at the moment that they won the title rather than Arsenal at the moment they realised they had blown it. But nobody is asking me how to run football and i am speaking from growing up with sports where seasons were used to figure out who played against whom in the playoffs.
posted by gspm at 01:20 AM on May 05, 2003
gspm: I'm not sure if one way has more merit than another, but I prefer the English way because I don't fancy formats where teams that are crappy in the full-season can come full-on in the post-season. I don't think that warrants a team being crowned champions if they did enough to get to the playoffs then suddenly exploded in the playoffs. You can keep that for the Cup competitions. In the English leagues, they separate out the cup (knockout or playoff competitions) from the league season (but play them mostly concurrently), and I think I prefer a league champion being crowned based on their performance (and endurance) over a whole season, rather than the tail end of it. And if they win in the Cups, too, which often is more of a luck proposition (because you get teams for the lower divisions mixing with the big teams -- which I like), then they get the Double or the Treble. Consistent performance over short-term spectacularity? Now, they combine both formats with the World Cup championship, I know. But I think that also speaks to a long qualifying format beforehand, and an abbreviated time schedule at the end. So I guess I'm just arguing for preference.
posted by worldcup2002 at 10:31 AM on May 05, 2003
it is a drama vs merit thing. i see the appeal of the merit thing and cannot argue against this as a better way of deciding the top team. i get hooked on the one-off drama. i guess that comes into play with footie re: not having "a team" and therefore cheering for everyone as long as it is exciting. the stack of meaningless games on the final weekend don't seem to be the greatest way to end a season, but that is the way it is and it is the reward to the champion walking away with the title. i don't think there are many teams in north american sports that actually end up winning titles based on a brief but effective run. sure, teams like that make the finals (see most of the teams - other than New Jersey- from the Eastern finalists in the NHL over the last 5 years or so), but mostly the winning squads were among the favourites before the playoffs began. I wholly won't begrudge the preference for the glory of a reg season title, but I imagine it is an appreciation that comes with what sport you have followed the longest or like the best.
posted by gspm at 12:01 PM on May 05, 2003
OMG! In the Liverpool v Man City match, Houllier did this?:
With 12 minutes to go against Manchester City, Milan Baros’s volley having been cancelled out by Anelka’s penalty with Chelsea already trailing at Upton Park, Liverpool were sitting on the point that would have meant they needed only a draw next Sunday. Houllier then hauled off El-Hadji Diouf and, inexplicably, Dietmar Hamann, sending on Bruno Cheyrou and Emile Heskey in their place. A hole appeared in the centre of the Liverpool midfield and, in the last minute of injury time, City stormed through it. With no German enforcer to snap at their heels, Ali Benarbia, Robbie Fowler and Shaun Wright-Phillips were allowed to indulge in some neat approach play and Anelka — instinctively, inevitably — thundered in the winning volley. Cue consternation and confusion.Houllier must go! Grrraaarrgh!
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:18 PM on May 05, 2003
gspm: To your point, here's one messy embarrassment that would be avoided by a clearcut championship game at the end of the season. Altho, why Man U couldn't have figured out by themselves (instead of getting Everton and the FA involved) that they should do the trophy presentation at their own ground on a different day from their last match, is entirely beyond me.
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:19 PM on May 05, 2003
Ridiculous...should not even be comtemplated. The whole system is fine. No need to Amercanize it at all! Next we'll have timeouts! Then commercial breaks... No thanks. The real winner emerges with this format.
posted by StarFucker at 02:43 PM on May 05, 2003
Actually, I was contemplating power plays. Did they ever try that in the NASL? But, you know, cheerleaders would be a nice addition. Or a low-cost option would be to just let the streakers run around at half-time (no wages or taxes to worry about). But make sure they're good-looking.
posted by worldcup2002 at 03:27 PM on May 05, 2003
Hey, who's playing who in the Div 1 playoffs?
posted by worldcup2002 at 03:31 PM on May 05, 2003
Here we go: Div 1 playoffs Round 1. May 10 Forest v Sheffield Utd. Wolves v Reading
posted by worldcup2002 at 03:55 PM on May 05, 2003
WC, Hamann does need surgery post-season, one wonders if he really could go any more in that game without risking major aggravation. Though I'm wondering if you're not correct regarding GH. Private aside: can you send me an email? Your profile doesn't have any contact info.
posted by billsaysthis at 05:36 PM on May 05, 2003
Are you stalking me, bill? ;-) Hey, I have vito's book. I'll send it to you when I'm done.
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:15 AM on May 06, 2003
Hey bill, about the Hamann substitution, it may have been called for, but putting in Heskey, instead of someone more defensive like Diao? Huh? Two strikers for a defensive midfielder and striker? I guess he was going for a win, but he sure picks the wrong time to be adventurous. I think we really do need to get Duff and Finnan (he should be top on the list) this post-season.
posted by worldcup2002 at 10:16 AM on May 06, 2003
i said my sitting on the fence piece (at least i hope it came across that i have a preference but can see the appeal of both sides) but with one last thing to add about my perception of the let down involved in the season based championship - Man U wins. The image in the paper - - - Ferguson doing a press conference joined by some Barclaycard champagne bottles. That doesn't seem like a great season ending image. It is a team game. the team wins. the team was scattered about watching the game that their opponents lost and which gave them the title. I guess it is anti-climactic too, or non-specifically climactic. Nobody knew for sure that the title was going to be decided last weekend. I didn't give the the attention that I would have liked to have given the title. I guess the FA cup will be the one that will please me then. They will have that little trophy (I say little because I am a Stanley Cup fan) that is adorned with ribbons and presented on the field. Well, perhaps I will also find the climactic action and drama in the Div One playoffs. Though I don't know any of those teams. Gotta learn some time.
posted by gspm at 10:31 AM on May 06, 2003
The image in the paper - - - Ferguson doing a press conference joined by some Barclaycard champagne bottles. gspm, it is your conditioning as an American to believe that unless it is a huge fucking spectacle, it is not worth paying attention to, and therefore sucks...
posted by StarFucker at 10:40 AM on May 06, 2003
I think gspm has a point, it has been a somewhat anti-climatic end to the season. Still, that's no reason why Everton should allow Man U to celebrate winning the title at their ground. In a sense, doing it in Manchester is better because it allows more fans to see it. Presumably they'll do some kinda open-topped bus tour round the city too. I can throroughly recommend the divisional playoffs. They're normally full of excitement, passion and controversy. Also, whilst next weekends Premiership fixtures may seem pointless, there's still a lot to play for - Bolton and West Ham trying to avoid the drop, Liverpool and Chelsea playing for the fourth Champ Leagues spot and the other teams all trying to acheive the best position they can, as it's £500,000 per place.
posted by squealy at 11:27 AM on May 06, 2003
StarFucker i realize you're not trying to make friends with me but: a) I am not American (would that change your expressed preconceptions?) b) I NEVER said it was not worth paying attention to. I have been paying attention to it KNOWING FULL WELL that the title is decided based on the standings. c) I don't believe I have said winning a regular season title SUCKS in anyway and I've just been ruminating on the spectacle and excitement involved in one way of winning a titles vs the honour and merit involved in winning a season long challenge. d) I don't see what picking on my comment about the Ferguson picture says. Was it erroneous in your eyes? I haven't seen any Man Utd team pic celebrating the title yet. I was just sharing. Perspective. Whatever. You certainly don't have to agree but, really, if you take the sutff I have said as a whole then I don't think I've said something that quite warrants your conclusions. No huge fucking spectacle involved the West Ham and Bolton stuff this weekend. A meaningful head to head match up between Livepool and Chelsea. I'm interested. Disappointed that the top of the table has a meaningless game, but what can you do.
posted by gspm at 12:15 PM on May 06, 2003
Guess what? They're going to get the EPL trophy at Everton. Not because of any great sense of occasion, but because of sponsors and TV deals. How exciting!
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:28 PM on May 06, 2003
gspm: a) I am not American The funny thing is, gspm, SF is American. He is brilliant.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:29 PM on May 06, 2003
Hey squealy or FB, can you refresh my memory regarding the Div 1 playoff format? Single-game elimination? Or two-leg semis?
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:31 PM on May 06, 2003
Div 1 playoffs: four teams in total, so semi-finals: the teams play each other twice, with no "away goals" rule. Winners of this go to Cardiff for the Division 1 playoff final.
posted by BigCalm at 12:45 PM on May 06, 2003
I AM brilliant...great observation. I AM an "American" but i am completely against anything Americanizing my favorite sport... I apologize for assuming you are an American as well...your comments reflected someone being used to 5 or 7 game series of playoffs and other such nonsense...and then some huge overly commercialized celebration... As has been mentioned before, the current format allows for the BEST TEAM to win the championship.
posted by StarFucker at 01:59 PM on May 06, 2003
Not only are the whole play offs bloody exciting they have produced some absolute classics over the years. If you look at the English league as whole, even the prem in particular, there is loads to get excited about. Last weekend was exciting, no one could have predicted it and it was brilliant. I have to say Wenger continues to show himself up to be a completely graceless twat. As far as the presentation goes, Everton are being a bit charmless but who cares, really. Money will speak in the end and the telly boys will have their way.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:43 PM on May 06, 2003
as far as the best team winning the championship i think you'd better convince Arsene Wenger. Of course I don't see any Americanization of football as a good thing. they should keep their mitts off hockey come to think of it (glowing puck anyone?). As long as you can see I am delighting in both sides of my own argument then continue your ranting, raving and otherwise contributing to discussion. Not meaning any harm, learning as I go.
posted by gspm at 06:02 PM on May 06, 2003
What you all said. Hahahahaha.
posted by worldcup2002 at 06:15 PM on May 06, 2003
hey SF and billsaysthis! Check it out, Houllier's on a shopping spree! They say he's pretty much got Finnan signed up (defender!), and his list is about 30 players long, including (SF will love this) Kewell, Cisse, Duff, and Joe Cole. Players to go include Berger, Smicer, Babbel, Xavier and even Hamann. How about Heskey?
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:22 AM on May 07, 2003
Who the hell is Finnan? I would love to see Kewell at Liverpool! Did anyone see his fucking goal on Sunday?! GOD DAMN! Up there for goal of the year i tell you... Cisse is another French player that Houllier would like to bring to Liverpool...and Duff? Not impressed with him really...and there is no point in bringing Duff AND Kewell..so bring on Kewell!! I like Joe Cole too! That would take care of the Murphy problem...
posted by StarFucker at 11:31 AM on May 07, 2003
SF: Here's a poor facsimile of the Kewell goal. Looks quite brilliant, seeing that he was sprinting from the halfway line and took the shot outside the box. Then again, Seaman was in goal, so it was bound to go in. ;-)
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:34 AM on May 07, 2003
That doesn't really give you a good idea of the goal...No keeper would have been able to save that, mostly because it came out of nowhere and it was a screaming shot... I don't think he actually got a first touch on the ball, to me it looked like he let it bounce and volleyed it before it hit the ground again...in one replay it looks like he feigns to bring it down, but it doesn't touch him... Fooking brilliant! He is becoming my favorite player...
posted by StarFucker at 12:15 PM on May 07, 2003
If Kewell's as good as you say, then I hope Houllier buys him. And: 
Steve Finnan, Fulham and Republic of Ireland defender/midfielder. Looks like a utility player who's solid in all areas of the field. I think I'm gonna pop out at lunch for the Arsenal v Saints game.
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:14 PM on May 07, 2003
Xavier's already gone, which is fine by me since he was just terrible in the early part of the season, but Hamann? Unless his injury is worse than I known about now, I don't want him to go. Heskey, that's a tough call but will the management let his huge transfer fee go up in smoke? Do you think Diouf and Diao can be better after a one year adjustment period, or should they go too?
posted by billsaysthis at 01:38 PM on May 07, 2003
Whoa, I don't see Diouf and Diao going unless Houllier brings in a superior defender and attacking midfielder who knock his socks off. btw, Arsenal is winning 3-0 with 20 minutes gone. Pires scored, while some guy called Pennant has netted two goals in three minutes.
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:14 PM on May 07, 2003
Finnan actually made his league debut for the Blues as winger a few years back after we picked him up from Stevenage for threepence halfpenny. Despite scoring 3 on his debut he didn't make much impression and was got rid of fairly quick. I always thought he was ok and have kept a fairly close eye on his subsequent career. He knocked around the lower leagues for a while and went to Fulham while they were still in the second division I think, signed by Keegan. To keep his place and continue to improve in the prem the way he has is a fantastic achievment. He is more of a right back / wing back than anything else; I can't see him being any better than what Liverpool already have though. I would have thought you could get a better player for less money abroad. Having said that, he is solid and reliable, good enough going forward and unlikely to let anybody down. Mills of Leeds is a better player, in my opinion, and he's no Roberto Carlos. Another cock up by the red scarfed alien.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:33 PM on May 07, 2003
wc 2002, some guy called Pennant is a future superstar! Remember the name, you will hear much more of it. As far as the players Liverpool signed this season go, you should have patience with them. Pires took ages to settle as did Henry, the EPL is unique in the demands it makes and some take longer than others to adjust.
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:36 PM on May 07, 2003
Diouf was fine this year...Diao will get better hopefully... But Heskey needs to go!
posted by StarFucker at 03:27 PM on May 07, 2003
Jermaine Pennant for those not in the know. Arsenal "stole" the kid from Notts County and there was a lot of controversy about it locally. FWIW, a colleague's son used to play in the Notts youth team with him and considered him an utterly conceited, arrogant arsehole. So he should do well as a professional footballer.
posted by squealy at 03:31 PM on May 07, 2003
He started for Arsenal at age 16. And he's only 20 now. Damn. Wonder if Freddy Adu will get the same chance, if he goes to Man U.
posted by worldcup2002 at 03:36 PM on May 07, 2003
... and I was hoping things would at least go down to the last weekend in the first season of premiership football I have followed. I guess there are still the relegation battles of West Ham and Bolton to look forward to and the Liverpool/Chelsea match to decide the last Champions League spot. I am little disappointed that the most sought after domestic title for these teams is, in essence, not decided on the field. At the moment Man U clinched the title where were they? Gathered at Beckham's house watching on TV? I like titles decided on the field. sigh.